I am very interested in the opinions of those reading this board concerning estimates related to % of believers attending sacrament meeting on Sunday.

I attend each Sunday and am trying to convince myself that there is some ability to draw conclusions about who buys into the system and who doesn't by observing

the way attendees are dressed
how they act during the meeting
the looks on faces
where they go after the meeting

of course, I could be very wrong.

It is important for me to better understand who is attending for reasons other than belief.

For attendees: Do you think that more than 20% of adults in sacrament meeting are non believers or are struggling?

I dressed conservatively, was very obedient and reliable, tried to participate or at least follow along during lessons. I defended the Church to critics.

When I had serious doubts, I stuffed them away cause I didn't like to even think about how disruptive it would be to my life if I didn't keep trucking. I'm annoyed with myself because I spent years being judgmental and self-righteous - even though I didn't even have any conviction about the religion. (My point is, I totally looked and acted the part of a full-on believer. I was stifling doubts and questions so well that I wasn't really awake to the fact I didn't believe it.) So the idea that you can tell where a person is at by observing the things you listed, I think is somewhat accurate - but even someone that's totally playing the part could be ripe for disaffection.

I really started to despise testimony meeting over the last couple of years. And with 2 little kids, I'm sure I looked less than thrilled to be there most of the time.

During the last couple of months I was going, I started using my baby as an excuse to sit in the car.

I haven't been since November. I don't think I'd say that more than 20% are doubters/nonbelievers. I'd think it's less.

Hey, that's me right now! I keep attending, in a white shirt and tie, and looking the part. I've skipped 1.5 times so far, and I think I'll go on Easter. After that, I may give it a break for a few weeks. Conference weekend at my house was about all I could stand.

I was trying to figure this out a little bit ago, too. I have no idea how many others are at least questioning, since discussing things like that is such a taboo. It's hard to guess, but I think there are some doubters, but not as many as we'd hope. I think people tend to guess that more people share their opinions than really do.

A member sent out a broad email to everyone, including me the exmo, by using the ward roster. It was blah blah blah, we are the only true church, blah blah blah, everyone else is wrong. The shock and dismay as I responded with "reply all." Most people did not take time to respond to me but some did.
It was a evenly split response.
2-3 hate my guts
10 or so disagree with the content of response but understand why I did it (still friends today)
2-3 said they were in a 'tough' situation and leaving would destroy what they had.

Man who sent email was chastised pretty good(from inside source) for using ward email list. Can't remember if he was exec sec or financial clerk at the time.

You really hit "reply all" downsouth? You rock! I've always wanted to do that. Good for you.

Really Really,
My wife, at first, was none too pleased. She was not nearly as far along as I was. What was ironic though, I don't believe the initial sender ever responded to me and we even had face to face conversations after the fact that were not church related.
But, to be honest, there was rarely ever a doubt when I did attend as to whether I would offer my opinion on any given topic.

My guesses:

Serious doubters/non-believing attendees (like me)
- Male 30%
- Female 5%

Questioning attendees (feel cognitive dissonance, uncomfortable about testimony bearing)
- Males - 60%
- Females - 30%

Add those together, and all but a handful of LDS men would bet their life on the church. But with the women, at least half would sacrifice anything, including their own kids, for the church. They are so into the magical and emotional aspects of things. And they hold the men's nuts to the wheel to stay involved.

...that if about 75% of the people on the books are totally inactive, then probably a similar percentage of active Mormons are less than total believers.

It would be really interesting if someone with a ward email distribution list, big cojones, willing to commit a little social suicide and promised confidentiality conducted a survey.

Double dog dare ya...

i happen to sit on the stand during sac meeting these days and you wouldn't believe the level of disinterest on the faces of the people in the congregation. I can count on my 2 hands the number of people engaged in what is typically being said. I am not exagerating either. ALOT look like they'd rather be somewhere else. i think alot of people come out of tradition, or they can't say no, or they don't want to upset the apple cart with their families, or, or, or.......you get the idea. The % that truly believe, i think, is pretty small.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2012 06:56PM by ocean.

I know what you mean. I started to notice this when I was teaching Gospel Doctrine at YBU. After awhile, I guess I started to wonder what the point was spending my Saturday nights coming up with lesson plans. Everyone was just giving the glazed over look no matter what you did.

Hey, you gotta do something to occupy and keep yourself entertained in sacrament meeting. I used to sometimes guess which men or women were having affairs. I was right twice ;-) lol

I know people who attend (or did at one time) because they don't want to commit social or business suicide.

But in non-Utah society, it's easier to go inactive and not have it affect your kids' friendships at school, or your job, or your neighborhood relationships. There is STILL a lot to lose, but not quite as much.

It would be impossible to know how many doubters there are in Utah. It would be cool if there was a way to have some kind of anonymous survey.

(most) Mormons AREN'T Believers; they're Belongers

From my experience, the real question isn't who is doubting, but who are actually the true believers. I have talked with many Mormons who don't act enthused and can't really defend the church, but say they go because they need something to believe in. Many people just can't let go of what they were indoctrinated into. These people don't take it as serious as others do, but feel it is the right thing and moral place to be. These are the type of people that you would easily win an argument about the church with, but these are also the people that think church attendance is connected to morality.

Great thread!

I never wear a white shirt, always colored with Native jewelry.

I always take a book to read, always an "alternate" opinion type.

If someone mentions Obama is the anti-Christ, I don't keep my
mouth shut. I respond immediately and remind them we are in the Church and it has said repeatedly, "No politics."

I rarely stay for an entire block, usually an hour is enough.

I occasionally visit other churches along the same street, including a black church across the street which has amazing music. I also like the nearby Buddhist temple and the friendly Quaker church. You may see my at Catholic mass on Saturday afternoons.

When my home teacher doesn't call me each month, I call him (I consider him a friend and am concerned as to his welfare). He alway apologizes.

My truck was attacked during Proposition 8, but I have publicly forgiven those who wrote nasty notes & tore off bumper stickers.

I love day of my life and cherish my twenty-three offspring.

Is family the reason you even go at all?

I feel like the disbelivers/questioners are pretending that that they are TBMs. To me it is like the Emperor with and without clothes story.
I think that the number of doubters (to varying degrees) is a high percentage (maybe 75% or more.) They are the ones that can see (or think they see the naked emperor). These people are being fed a continuous line about how nice the Emperor's clothes are. These doubters don't see the clothes. The doubters don't hear all of the lies told in churh and they don't believe them. They know they are lies. They know that the Emperor is naked. The other people who see the clothes on the Emperor are the TBMs.
Out of cultural/religious/family pressure, some folks have to pretend to see the clothes when they don't see them at all. Fear keeps them from just yelling "Hey, the Emperor is naked," "Hey the church is a crock of crap". It is the maintenance of a cultural norm whether good or bad. Some norms are vary bad.
I have come to a point often when I have a great deal of pity for some of the TBMs. My cousin is a TBM and yet sometimes when I talk with her she sounds like there is a tiny twinge of doubt there in her voice that she doesn't talk about because she is not supposed to.
Are any of you in a situation where you feel pity for the TBM because they are in the dark and can't seem to get out or don't want to, or are afraid to?

The % of seriously doubting seems to match the % of rational thinkers...

I think you are barking up the wrong tree on how to judge those who believe/don't believe - at least using the criteria you are talking about.

I would have looked like a complete believer to you. Dressed in a suit, high profile calling, etc.

Probably the only giveaway you would have seen is my avoidance of talking about spiritual/testimony type things whenever possible.

After I came out in my unbelief I was talking to a friend of mine who would have been one of my first guesses of someone who doesn't believe. The guy wears more out there clothes and only shows up to church about once a month. He believes it completely.

Just a total guess - but I think 20% is a little high on those seriously questioning. 20% is probably low for those who seriously question at least at some point in their lives, but they aren't all doing it at once.

I figured it out. Then I was an Ultra-EXMO, 150% OUT... It was 1 year from acknowledging my doubts to my resignation. Oddly enough, while on this board I learned of a poster who attended a previous ward. He always attended and I knew he never got his recommend renewed, but I could not figure him out. I now learned that he was a doubter for MANY years and a long time poster. He evetually resigned and joined the Catholic church. My years of serving in the bishopric has had me reflecting on some members I knew that I now wonder about.

Just before moving to the east coast we called our new Bishop. He sounded out-of-his-mind with joy that "his prayers had been answered for new families to move into the ward." I asked how many were in the ward, he bragged that "over 250 are on the records" (I came from a ward of 500+ who attend!).

So, I asked him how many attend and he sheepishly siad that about 100 attend each Sunday. When we got off the phone, I did the math for my then TBM husband and siad so you realize that once we arrive thay will have to change the population sign in the foyer (doesn't really exist, only in my my mind like when you enter small towns).

What's more embarrassing is when in Relief Society a new sister introduces herself. She is given the 3rd degree by what appear to be rabid step-ford wives after her talents. She is actually pelted by questions...it plays out like this:

New Sister: Hi, I'm Jen and my husband was just transferred here from up-shut nowhere. We have 4 children, all (boys or girls, it doesn't matter b/c she then says) and we're expecting our 5th in a few months--everyone breathes a sign of relief at the possibility that she will give birth to a different gender. [She then want to sit down but the questions begin....
RELIEF SP: WHere do you live?
New Sister: Uhmmm, we're still looking.
RELIEF SP: Are you buying or renting because Brother Footinyourdoor is in real estate and would gladly help you.
1stCOunselor: DO you play piano?
SOMEONE SEATED: Have you ever served in Primary?

The sister begins to look terrified and I am not making this up. One Sunday as I witnessed this over and over again...I announced in a loud voice, "Sisters, put down your hymn books and step away from the nice new sister and let her breathe. Clearly we are happy she is here let's not scare her...there's nothing to see here, go back to your homes!

Luckily this was met with a few laughs and the relieved sister sat down. But this happened over and over again...

New trend in the ward I do not attend anymore...nothing is planned. Even for this easter, some of the sisters (not the RS Pres or anyone in it) are planning an easter egg hunt at someones house. They have started a book club and meet weekly for play dates. The Priesthood does not seem to be involved and the book titles are certainly NOT ones they would approve of.