Huh? Last time I checked there is a BIG penalty for not living up to the covenants...you will be in the very power of Satan himself....right??

it's not a penalty at all :-)

And also, in the temple people use to gesture to slit their throats and cut open their bellies if they violate their oaths.

That's not true, that's not true. There are no penalties in the Temple...JFH

...the interviewer did NOT use the word "penalties". He asked whether patrons once had to mimic the ritual slitting of the throat. The interviewer either was not familiar with the term "penalties", or else felt the audience would not be familiar with the term, so he described the gestures (slitting of throat, chest, abdomen) instead.

It was Holland who responded "there are no penalties in the temple". The fact that HE used the word "penalties", when the interviewer never used the word, proves that Holland knows what the word means and that they once were a part of the endowment. If they had never existed, Mormons wouldn't have a dedicated word to describe them.

It's just too bad that so few members will actually watch that interview.

I disagree. *PLENTY* of members will watch it. I'm sure my entire TBM family have, and a good half of my Facebook friends list. The problem is they won't understand it. They all say what a great job Elder Holland did. There will be no significant whatsoever in that clip to TBMs.

...I sometimes forget how the Mormon Blinders prevent one from seeing reality.

Many may watch it. I believe that it will end up being like when GBH said he doesn't know if mormons will become gods on Larry King. We watched it in seminary and all everybody in my class was saying how well he did in the interview.

Exactly. I watched that in Seminary and thought he did very well. How wonderful it was to have a prophet like GBH sharing the gospel with the world through the MSM!

I actually only understood the significance of what he said 8 months ago when I started "investigating" the church.

I think it's plain old arrogance. You are at the top of the organizational pyramid surrounded by boot-licking sycophants all day and sealed off from outsiders. It's bound to give you an inflated sense of self and a myopic paradigm of the universe.

I watched the documentary and it was really good.

God will not be mocked - sounds like a penalty.

If these people do not live up to the covenants that try make at this alter on this day I will have them in my power (Satan speaking) - sounds like a penalty.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2012 04:32PM by Stumbling.

Yes. But it was Satan the Father of Lies, who issues the threat that if we don't live up to the covenants we will be in his power. So guess it's a paper tiger.

The only thing is that Satan is the only character in the temple who says anything of consequence.

The weak apologetic of ceaselessly parsing language in order to avoid actually answering the question only works on the faithful. The rest of us see it for the Shinola it is.

So, yes, Brother Apostle Sir Holland. There ARE no penalties in the temple. But the question you were asked was whether there WERE penalties in the temple when Mitt went through. The only honest answer to the question was "Yes".

You blew it.

Pathetic.

How is Satan's threat to have you under his power if one doesn't live up the covenants made in the Temple not a penalty?

good point. I've never been through the temple. I was more reacting to what I see on mormon apologetic sites. The silly linguistic games that are played on such sites are exactly the kind Holland is playing here. But, yes, the lie is even greater given what you said.

The Book of Mormon or some religious book as if in some legit gesture ready to lie for the Lord and he blatantly did.

He blatantly lied when he said 'It's not true'.

It was only a few seconds later that he had do a U turn and admit it.

LDS Cult liars.

Shouldn't Holland now be required to slit his own throat for revealing to the world that part of the endowment used to be taking an oath to slit your own throat if you spoke of taking an oath to slit your own throat to people who hadn't taken an oath to slit their own throat if they revealed they had taken an oath to slit their own throat?