As he can close to death he TOTALLY blew the whistle. He used the word FRAUD JUSU GET INSPIRATION LIKE ANYBODY ELSE PUBLICALLY RETRACTED GODHOOD. He was great and I think he did it on purpose. He cwrtainly gave me AMMO to leave What do you believe wD the whistle heard by you?dorru about typos on aphone with a fat finget.

Hinckley as a whistleblower....that's a fascinating take on mormonism. I'll have to think on it.

He was evil. As he got closer to death, he began to squirm. What if there really is a judgment. His lying ass would be headed down that steep slope.

I can see it. As I have mentioned before, a friend of mine grew up with Hinckley in his ward. He was a TERRIBLE person but so powerful that people only whispered about his selfishness and arrogance.

Anagrammy

Anagrammy,
Do tell! Every bit of negative information I learn about the church makes me feel more free. (sorry about the grammar :( ).

Funny, Annagrammy, my grandmother grew up with him and she said the same thing about him.

Wow. I want to hear more too.

Now I am at work with a very large key board. My post must have been hilarious ...... I loved it FAT FINGET. Anyone else got fat fingers when typing on phones.

Now the HINCKSTER DEAL:

1. was born into it.

2. realised the church was a fraud on mission but had to stay in tribe. Remember he wrote to his father and said he was wasting his time and their money. He said he got to words back from Dad ... WORK AND WORK.

3. so he came home and followed the programmed A. primary indoctrination, B. solidifying brainwashing by mission C. marriage very early, (sex sex sex) D. children and had to make a buck.

4. realised PR was his thing and began to climb the CURSUS HONORUM (like all good Romans).

5. then had to stay with team because everything depended on it.

6. when he became PROFIT, his wife let the Freudian slip out of the bag. She said 'WHAT HAVE YOU GOT ME INTO NOW'. I dont think she had a testimony either. Just surviving in a vicious game.

7. he totally realised he was an idiot when he bought Hoffmans fake documents.

8. heard a member actually had an interview with him, the member told him his misgivings from history. Hinkley said, Yeah I know BUT THE CHURCH WILL MAKE YOU A BETTER MAN SO DONT LEAVE. AND SHHHHH DONT TELL ANYONE WHAT I SAID BETTER THEY DONT KNOW. KEEPS THEM SAFE.

9. constantly profiling himself of the media and denying anything we held as doctrine. Been around since 1966 so when he said Godhood achievement was just ..... a rhyming couplet ... I was astonished. Then it went on and on, asked about revelation .... no way, asked about polygamy .....something in our past .... I dont recall.

10. Then I am listening to General Conference and he says, the church stands or falls on the testimony of Joseph Smith, either God appeared or didnt, if he didnt the church was a FRAUD.

11. Yeah, when faced with death he came clean. We know that Smith even joined the Methodist church after being personally told by God that it was an abomination. Then I find out 7 or is it nine versions of first vision. all different.

12. Hinkley BLEW THE WHISTLE FOR ME, as he approached the end.
He wanted to make the listeners aware. It was all one big con.

13. And have you noticed Monson never goes near the media. The professional PR team deals with it. They dont want any more Hinkley's telling us to abandon the ship, IT IS ALL A LIE.

14. So I say PRAISE TO THE WHISTLEBLOWER ... HE GOT IT RIGHT AT LAST.

Thanks for all this info. The more I get the more overjoyed I become for finally seeing the light. I would be interested in reading more about this theory.

You may be right on this.

It is sure easier to see how he was a PR master as compared to the clown show now.

Mitt is only going to make this much more interesting.

Romney will do and say whatever he is told by SLC. But then he was born in the game. Didnt have a fighting chance. Just imagine if he had wanted out when a teenager, Dad would have cut out his millions.

Do you know he descends from a longline of PRATTS. In my country it is the hunting shooting Prince Charles types. Victims from birth so they just enjoy the ride and become OBNOXIOUS. Poor little rich boy!!!!!

I agree, and really do not give a rats ass about Mitt, but I do like the idea of LDS being scrutinized, with the hard questions being asked, and the senile leadership trying to dodge them.

The church has survived because of careful control of information. The internet is a game changer, this information cannot be controlled, and Mitt is going to be the poster biy leading the media to it.

The internet is where religions come to die. LDS Inc is about to be in the spotlight.

Hmmm...hadn't considered this angle before. I don't know - you might be on to something. I too would be interested in hearing more about Hinckley and his actions in his ward.

Talk to me, does anyone else see Hinkley as a whistleblower? I really would like to know, I have been sitting on this idea for a decade ...... and do you think Jon Stewart or Colbert will have a chat to Tommy anytime soon?

The thought did occur to me, now it makes sense.

I did perk up my ears the first time Hinckley used the word 'fraud' It was obvious to me that he knew, and I was floored as he was a master of the media and should have known how powerful and memorable the use of that word would be.

I've had this suspicion too. Having worked in Journalism, I've had to deal with PR types. They usually know exactly what they are doing on so many levels that normal people don't take into account. Double meanings, half-truths etc. Hinckley's whole job would be to know the dirtiest dirt and spin it to make the church look good. He must have known.

I think he was either taunting or hinting with his comments about the First Vision. This issue is probably the easiest for the average member to understand. Polygamy can be confused by claiming Joseph didn't have sex with his young wives/married wives...they were somehow "spiritual sealings." Egyptian hieroglyphs can be confusing or misinterpreted. DNA - who really understands that but educated/scientific types. Mormon scientists can confuse the average person on this subject easily. But the First Vision - that is simple enough. Joseph Smith's own handwritten versions of the First Vision contradict what the church teaches today. Why wasn't the official version published until the 1840s if it was so important? Why didn't Joseph mention it when he wrote the church history in 1835? Why are there no records of it being taught in the early church? You get the idea.

So in my mind, Gordo was either taunting or warning the members when he said everything depended on the First Vision. Which you believe depends on your opinion of the man. He may have arrogantly been waving members stupidity in their faces or he may have had last minute doubts and been trying to warn members the only way he knew how.

take care of it RJ.

He certainly was no dodo. He was the most shrewd of the leaders in the past half century, and surely must have selected his words carefully. Fascinating hypothesis.

'8. heard a member actually had an interview with him, the member told him his misgivings from history. Hinkley said, Yeah I know BUT THE CHURCH WILL MAKE YOU A BETTER MAN SO DONT LEAVE. AND SHHHHH DONT TELL ANYONE WHAT I SAID BETTER THEY DONT KNOW. KEEPS THEM SAFE.'

Does anyone have any documentation of a conversation like this? Did it happen to be with anyone that posts here?

as fast as mormons swallow a 3 nephites on the I-15 tale.

I'm not saying that some of the "brethren" don't have their doubts from time to time. And these types of threads give us our kind of rfm warm fuzzies (oh my goodness, it's all so clear now. He WAS trying to tell us something).

Sorry to burst any apostate bubbles but dude believed it strongly. We can read between the lines of as many conference talks, news interviews, and "a friend of a friend grew up with him" stories, but the bottom line is he claimed it as true to his death bed.

But hey. I love conspiracy theories as much as anyone, so what the heck. Who's next up to bare their "Hinckley was trying to tell us testimony."

We aren't saying we BELIEVE this with the blind faith people in Delta believe in the 3 Nephites. We are just debating a possibility. You just weighed in on the "disbelief" side. Fair enough. But discounting other possibilities with your "testimony" of his testimony is more Mormon than believing in the 3 Nephites.

"testimony" of Hinkster's testimony, than the fledgling testimonies of his "non-testimony" born of a thread like this.

People are very open-minded about possibilities that support their current belief system. It's as rampant here at RFM as it is in the tscc.

Not saying there's anything right or wrong with it. Just kind of an interesting observation in human behavior. We will mold information to fit our belief system. We did it when we were tbm's (those that were) and it happens daily here.

Still if I was a betting man, I'd say GBH believed it whole heartededly with normal occasional doubts.

Like most of what we talk about here, no way to know for sure either way. At least in a way that satisfies unanymously.

staind Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Like most of what we talk about here, no way to
> know for sure either way.

Agreed - but it's fun to examine the possibilities.

Interesting theory . . . .

;o)

Mike Wallace: Are you a prophet of God?
Hinkley: The members of the church sustain me as such.

...Yeah, he knew it was a fraud, allright.

+100

W: Does your authority come from God?
H: My authority comes from the members of the church.

Otherwise stated. This is your proof, boys and girls.

Hinkley may not have been a whistle blower but it seems to me he tipped his hand when he decided to seek treatment for his cancer at age 95. I would think someone with a firm testimony would be anxious to get to the other side to be reunited with his wife. No, not him. Spend thousands of dollars and be sick with treatments just to last another month or two. He was either scared to death of what was waiting on the other side or he knew full well nothing was waiting for him.

OK, STAIND. What about the interview he had, and dare I say I KNOW IT IS TRUE. And yes, we all love conspiracies, ie sinking of Luisiantia to get U.S TO JOIN ww1 AND BOMBING OF PEARL HARBOUR AND MOON LANDING.

BUT WHY WOULD THE GUY SAY fraud, in general conference, that is such a public forum. Nothing could have been closer to blasphemy for us TBMS. AND IT GOT ME ON THE QUEST. I SPENT 26kS DOING RESEARCH IN U.S. TO PROVE IT WASNT a fraud or my whole life 40 plus years had been lived as a lie...... BUT WHEN I ASKED THE QUESTIONS TO THE FAIR CONMEN in person about the dirt on the church they all agreed that it happened .... yes he did have an affair with Fanny Alger, servant girl 15 and his brothers in the church were sent on missions so he could have sex with their ... yes theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere were multiple versions of first vision, yes yes yes. They all agreed with what I had found and then tried to explain it away. After delivering the dirt I lost my testiphony because the explanations to cover the dirt did not swim. I had been conned, used and abused for a lifetime. Am I bitter, am I angry, am I lonely. You bet, but I like to think that someone in the rotten bunch of apples tipped us off. Maybe I am deluded and I am trying to fit a apple in a square hole.... but you cannot remove the fact the HINCKLEY denied everything in the media and then said the FFFFFFFF WORD at conference. He knew and maybe he just gave us the heads up as it was about to all fall down anyway with the net.

I was TBM when I questioned why he would use the word fraud in the same sentence as JS. I was not looking for something to confirm my suspicions of conspiracy.

They are extremely careful about making inflammatory statements that will blow up in headlines. They are the antithesis of the early brethern. IMO opinon though this doesn't equate to them not believing it. It speaks to the times we live in. It's classic corporate tip toeing to cause the least amount of waves.

Watch. Romney will use this very technique over the next 6 months. Admit to nothing that will shed a negative light. Not saying it's right, but it's effective.

GBH is far from the first one to suggest that the whole thing hinges on whether or not the B.O.M. is a hoax or not. Hell RM's used that often.

I'm not trying to talk you out of your theory. They are fun to talk about. More than anything I get a kick out of how fast the tbrfm'ers (true believing rfm'ers) take something like this and run with it. It's so ironically similar to what goes on in tssc. Just a funny observation.

There are quite often threads here that speculate about who among the 15 or even the GA's collectively secretely don't believe. We all have our opinions. I'm just glad mine's right :) (that was a joke. hope you don't think I'm really fired up about this)

It is a funny observation. But one is a theory and the other is absolute truth. So it's funny but wrong at the core. : )

I too have often felt that GBH cryptically was sending clues out. Once you are as high up as him you have too much to lose by coming clean. It's not just your life you are screwing up, but basically your whole family grandkids and all. Plus even if one of the 12 said it was all a fraud the general membership is so brainwashed they wouldn't believe it. The other apostles would throw the whistle blower under the bus and he would be branded an evil apostate.

What is the absolute truth that you're talking about? The truth or fraud of the tscc? No, even that is personal opinion. It's the majority/popular opinion here, but absolute truth is a very rare thing and it doesn't apply here.

It's all speculation about stuff no one knows for sure on (even though there's plenty on both sides who argue otherwise. Many tbm's know it's absolutely true and even more non/ex-mo's know it's not..........and what's really fun about it is how many have once taken one position on it and now hold the other.) Makes my brain hurt sometimes.

Need a beer, a golf course and a casino. Ugh.

Sorry, there's one thing I do know for sure. It isn't what they claim it to be. Pretty much everything else in life to me is a mystery, but not that. They're just like televangelists, just shrewder and less weepy. (usually)

Will Monson, looking at death's face, do something similar?

There is no debate about the truth of the Mormon church. It's false. It's provably false.

To compare people discussing whether Hinckley knew to tbm's saying they know tscc is true is a silly comparison.

Enjoy your near beer.

it was that predictable. Bet I could get a mo to tell me it's provably true.

Kinda sucks that neither of you are right.

Fully leaded tonight, thanks.

That's what these threads are about. Fun speculation and pissing matches over who the better online debater is. Cheap entertainment. 'Specially with a few (near) beers in ya.

I think you are all just amusing each other. The man didn't give a shiat for any of us. That is why he was sitting at the apex of the pyramid scheme. we got screwwwwed

I've thought this for a long time. I took a special interest in him because he is a somewhat close relative. And yes I still cringe a little when he is called out on this forum.

Like him, my mission was in England and I always felt a kind of understanding or being on the same wavelength type of thing with him. I'm sure it is mostly manufactured. Humans love to make connections and feel like they know what other people are thinking. I'm probably full of crap and presumptuous but this is how I felt about him.

The way he talked in the Larry King interview totally made sense to me. That is the exact way we talked in the mission field. Hosing people over we called it. I felt like, if you read between the lines from his talks he was basically saying it doesn't matter if its true because it is still a good thing to belong to. The day he said something to the effect that revelation works exactly the same for him as it does for regular members (ie it doesn't work), was a giant AH HA moment for me. What I had suspected all along he now freely admitted. I know other talks were very stern and serious sounding testimony things but it was out there. He said it. I felt like I understood the message.

Maybe everyone sees what they want to see. TBMs only take the strong testimony stuff. RFMers see the hypocrisy. I saw a person doing the best he could in a difficult situation. I saw what I interpreted as doubt and his slightly embarrassed acknowledgement that he really was no different than anyone else. He knew he had no magic powers.

My own personal perspective on him in a nutshell: I would be surprised if he was a true believer.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2012 12:30AM by steve benson.

I hope you've written the information and experiences down for future generations.

experiences that are just to sacred to share but trust him, it's all true.

Must admit it would be fascinating to have your perspective on a lot of these guys.

I think he was a true believer to a certain age, then after that, knew it was a cover up but had to play the game. He played it as best he could, and was pretty good at it... but eventually lost the ability to be convincing, at least among the questioning, less-actives who could smell a rat.

Among some naive members, he was revered for the prophet he wasn't. But the ones with their antennae up knew he was not able to convince everyone.

I thought he was pretty slimey, esp when he belittled the missionaries on nation TV. He came across as cocky and eventually, pathetic.

Flyer Wrote:

> I thought he was pretty slimey, esp when he
> belittled the missionaries on nation TV. He came
> across as cocky and eventually, pathetic.

You might be talking about my mission. When Hinckley was interviewing with Mike Wallace he visited and spoke at our mission. Our mission president lectured us to wear our best clothes, make sure they are perfectly ironed and to look out absolute best when we meet "the prophet."

We all took it to heart and did look our best. EVERYONE looked superb. Perfectly ironed clothes,etc., but then Hinckley cracked a joke about how some of us missionaries looked a little sloppy. It kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

until the sun gets its light from Kolob, TSCC is False

until the Book of Abraham is True, TSCC is False.

until they stop talking & writing with equivocation & ambiguity, I say it's False.

until the Q guys CLAIM that they saw/talked with the resurrected Christ -out in the Open-, and I see them say this in person; hear their voice, see their body language, I say it's False.

Gordon B.S. Hinckley wanted to sell secret MORmON handshakes to EVERYONE, the same way McClown burgers sells burgers and fries. Hinckley was determined to blow the deal wide open and show up all the other MORmON leaders in his approach. But Hinckley forgot that not everyone is as STUPID as MORmONS! and then he made the mistake of buying into his own PR spin about him being a PR genius.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wALvdgurB4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YEMX0VooD4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIkVNWHT-IA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDhAIjF0wQI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4k5OCg4xuA

For me this post hits close to home. My TBM father served in the same mission at the same time as Hinckley. They were lifelong friends. Hinckley conducted the funerals of both my parents, which I attended. I had left the cult 20+ year prior to that time.

I don't think that Hinckley was stupid. I agree that he found a comfortable place in Mormondom and that was his lifelong work. Of course he knew it was a scam. But he had a good comfortable life as the head man in charge of the scam. As he neared the end of his life he probably started regretting having scammed millions of people. So that is why he did the whistleblowing stuff.

N/T



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2012 08:29AM by Jesus Smith.

Saviorself are you saying he was a personal witness to the Hinckley scam. Did you meet with him was anything said or was it inferred? Thank you for your clarification I feel a bit better. The way he spoke was never convincing or even reverent with all the jokes. Did your parents leave the church too?