Have you ever succeeded in getting a TBM to ACTUALLY read a book or website exposing the WHOLE truth about Mormonism? I'm not talking about reading the first page and then they get scared and throw it away, but actually took the time and read the WHOLE thing.

Some examples might be MormonThink.com, UTLM.org, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality, Insider's View on Mormon Origins, etc...stuff that really gets into EVERYTHING historically problematic about Mormonism.

How did it go? Did it change their views on Mormonism or their views on you? Did it go well or bad? What was their reaction?

In my experience it would be easier to shove Mitt Romney through the eye of the proverbial needle than to ever get anyone I know to even consider reading something like that.

No, and I had apostate members try the same with me when I was a TBM, and it failed then. I think a lot of the truthful stuff about Mormons is most useful for after you figure out the truth on your own, or at least start to suspect.

No luck at all. I don't know any TBMs who have intellectual curiousity. Their minds are closed.

this is so true.

As the guy who gets most of the email directed to the MormonThink website, I can say that 19 out of 20 people that read through the website say it changed their minds and they no longer believe in the church and usually write to thank those that helped make the site.

But 1 out of 20 is someone that has read most of it, or has read a lot of it, and still believes. I have had ongoing conversations with these people and they continue to believe (at least for now).

I think if people really want to believe that something is true, they will find a way to do it - like the apologists who know as much as any of us do.

However, my experience is that if you can actually get someone to look at all the facts via a few websites or books, that the majority will stop believing in the church and that 100% of those that viewed everything will at least have a diminished view of the church they thought they knew.

I managed to get my sister to read "In Sacred Loneliness" - the history of Joe Smith's "wives" written by an LDS author.

Had a very salutary effect

M

Only Uncle Max succeeded?

It doesn't suprise me that TBM's tend not to read anything exposing their 'truth' or if they did would likely ignore it anyway and not think much about it or try not to.

In my early days of investigating I can remember a sacrament meeting talk about the importance of 'Testimony' and the speaker went on to share an experience he had as a missionary.

He basically told us about a householder who was prepared for them. He let them in and laid out all the facts and research that proved the church's claims to be false. As a missionary he said he couldn't refute anything academically but was able to refute the householder with his testimony.

I thought to myself 'Huh! lol

I did find the talk very strange and even somewhat revealing at the time as I was researching the LDS historical claims that American Indians were descended of Lamanites who were Israelites etc.

Here is one of the most damaging videos to MORmONISM that I can think of and it was made to by MORmON INSIDERS WITH THE INTENT TO DEFEND Joseph Smith and MORmONISM. When I told my family member about it, they insisted that it had to be made by anti MORmONS.
I told them that if that was the case, then they were duty bound to watch the thing and then write a letter to LDS Inc to turn in the defector who was hiding out on the faculty of BYU.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmhjgaB2Hi8

I suspect the only reason the book worked on my sister is that she was already having her own doubts. She volunteers at a shelter for abused women and children and the parallels must have hit her like a shovel round the back of the head.

That video is nauseating and I spotted my first lie almost immediately - "with the approval of his wife Emma" the one who had to be threatened with the wrath of the Lord in the D&C you mean?

I would spit but I've just mopped the kitchen floor

Yes. The Journal of Discourses. When I was a TBM, someone pointed out the Adam-God doctrine. That was the beginning of the end.

ouch,another *anti MORmON* book that started out as a MORmON book !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1car5aCGE6E

My book (still in progress) is actually two books. The first is my text, presenting the facts, and the way I see them. The second is selected readings:

I Excerpts from Mein Kampf 3
II World-wide Circumcision Rates 9
III Excerpts from the King James “Apocrypha” 10
IV Excerpts from the “Book of Enoch” 49
V Excerpts from Clavigero's History of Mexico 57
VI Solomon Spalding 105
VII Excerpts from “Archaeologica Americana” 122
VIII The Existence of “Manuscript Found (and Lost)” 126
IX Excerpts from Lucy Mack Smith’s Book 156
X Comparison of Proper Nouns in Bible and BoM 161
XI Excerpts from the Doctrine and Covenants 168
XII Excerpts from Geoffrey of Monmouth 178
XIII American Chronicles of the Times 193
XIV Swedenborgian Resonances and Dissonances 196
XV Excerpts from the writings of Ethan Smith 215
XVI Excerpts from Medieval Icelandic Literature 227
XVII Excerpts from the Warsaw Signal/ Message 251
XVIII Excerpts from Northern Antiquities 261
XIX Excerpts from the Works of William Shakespeare 264
XX Proceedings.. Reed Smoot...to Hold his Seat 301
XXI. Critical differences between LDS and the teachings of the Catechism of the Catholic Church 322
XXII Gems from the Journal of Discourses 335

I have thought that the reference text could be used independently, without my text, which might be threatening to a TBM.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2012 03:00PM by me.

I think for the vast majority of people, by the time they get to reading material that exposes the church, they are already on their way out. A true tbm is not going to read "anti-mormon literature." Maybe some more scholarly mormons like Richard Bushman will read it, but the average tbm is not going to read anything that will shake their faith. If they did they would not be much of a tbm since the church does not sanction reading anything out of their box.

Good point. That's why I think using the church's own literature to point out absurdities is the best way to get through to a tbm. Point out the crazy things Brigham Young said in the Journal of Discourses or the contradictions in the D&C about not being able to go to heaven unless you practice polygamy. That s a big one. According to their OWN Scripture, none of the active Mormons today would make it the the CK!

I got my best friend to start reading Insider's View by telling her the author was LDS while writing it and had remained LDS. (Now that's no longer true, but...) She had recently returned home from her mission.

Anyway she read the first chapter, left the church, and then didn't care enough to bother reading the rest of the book. :) It was completely unexpected from my perspective. I expected her to toss it out and say it was anti mormon and facts don't matter when one has faith- but I was wrong.

My wife read the first few pages of Palmer's book, and then promptly threw the book across the room. She couldn't handle the truth.