I have always thought of divorce as that very last available option. I am willing to withstand a whole lot to keep it from happening. It's too easy a choice. I go along in life feeling groovy as long as I avoid too much contact with my spouse. Otherwise my life is joyous. He says things that make me feel bad. If I didn't have to hear it I could feel really good. But if I divorce my daughter who is 8 will suffer scars. Do I keep smiling? Do I try and be the positive force in this family with a spouse who thinks he is God's gift to women? I hate to say it but he goes about acting like I'm not attractive. He has done this for 12 years. The thing that bugs me is that I feel attractive. And if I lopped him off I would be happier. But I would hurt my child and break apart the family. Is it worth it just to be selfish and end it? I need to hear other experiences with this. Are your lives worse or better after divorce? I'm 49 years old. I don't need a relationship at this point I would be pretty happy without.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2012 06:11PM by suckafoo.

I was pretty young when my parents got divorced...and I gotta say, kids are a lot more intuitive than you may think- me and all my brothers and sisters were a LOT happier when our parents were apart than when they were unhappy together. If you stay together, your child will see what you and your husband have and think that's what a normal relationship looks like. A divorce is a pretty huge decision though, which you're obviously aware, so if you've exhausted all other options and chances at possibly rekindling the relationship, it's something that may be worth considering.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2012 08:21PM by ajhart.

I agree - my brother and I were far better when our parents divorced.

During the transition as we adjusted to their separation and the divorce being finalized? Yeah, there were some rough spots there. But both of us knew our parents were better apart. As adults, we now see how important it was for both of them to go their separate ways. We learned that it's important to improve our lives if something absolutely isn't working, rather than just suck it up and accept the situation.

My parents don't like to hear it, but I was FINE with them divorcing. When they first announced it, sure - I freaked out. But it became the new normal for me. Divorce just happens. Now I honestly can't remember them being together. *shrug*

I despise the concept that people should stay together for the children when they're miserable in their marriages, or that kids will be somehow scarred horribly by divorce that will somehow destroy their entire lives. Life involves "scars". It involves difficulty. How we get through that difficulty is important - and if divorce is on the table as a lesson of life, kids WILL get through it just fine.

Consider this: do you really think it would be a good idea to (continue to) raise a child in an environment where they learn it is ok for men to treat women that way? Kids not only notice those things, but will often be attracted to relationships that mirror their parents', even if they logically know it is wrong.

If you feel better when your spouse is not around (or not speaking), you probabl know what you should do.

Keep in mind, since you have a kid you won't truly be "free" of his insulting and condescending behavior. I know I thought that would be the case when I got a divorce from my first husband. I thought, great. My problems are solved. I won't have to deal with his personality issues anymore.

I was wrong. Because we have a child we still have to interact on a fairly regular basis. It's worse now, because I am no longer able to control the way he speaks about me in front of our son. He still talks to me like i'm a wayward child who needs correcting. The only difference is now he doesn't have to pretend like he loves me so he can look like a great husband. So he can be a little less passive and a lot more aggressive with his insults.

I am still glad we split, and I have a wonderful husband now who would never dream of treating me poorly. But i'd be lying if I said that getting a divorce solved my problems for me.

It's a difficult road, but in your case it may be for the best. I would try seeing if he is interested in counseling, or offer an ultimatum if you are sure you are ready to move on if he doesn't try to step up as a husband.

You can be very happy without a relationship. I am older than you and divorced for 8 yrs. I have so much freedom, don't have to cater to a boring, inattentive, and very much a do nothing person. He loved his job and that is about all (pilot)He could stay home every wkend for 8-10 yrs. and then say...why don't we go with my sister to Sun Valley....yep he did that once. She had to convince him to take a trip. He could never plan anything himself, surprise me or the kids...he let sister plan half of our vacations when we did go....3 I insisted on visiting my family and once demanded to go to Hawaii. He had tons of opportunity to take me on three day trips....but no...he likes the boring stay at home life and do nothing.He cheated too so that helped me know this has to end. He does not deserve me.

If you feel you can work through the things you don't like then by all means do. But telling you you are not attractive...seriously??? Who is he to do that. I wonder too if I had left my husband when my kids were 5 and 7 would life have been very different or the same. I think I am better now by keeping him around a bit. He begged of course. Now, there is no way I want to live the rest of my life with such a sad soul.

When I decided to stay as a gal in my mid 30's it was unfortunate that not much changed in that next 15 yrs. So you need to think of all that. If there is no chance for change, why stay?

It was the hardest thing I ever did. I wasn't given the choice, but it had to happen. My ex-wife was reckless with money and cheating on me. She was emotionally and verbally abusive. She deliberately did things to hurt me. I couldn't continue, and it was actually somewhat of a relief when she announced that we were getting a divorce.

My son was five at the time. He's nine now, and he has adjusted better than I thought he would. He was sad that he lost his house. He felt insecure at first about what was going to happen. He though, for example, that he was going to get a new daddy and he wanted me to stay. I had to explain to him again and again that I will always be his daddy and that is never going to change.

Now he likes the way things are. He has mommy's house, and he has daddy's house on the weekends. He likes the change of pace. He does some things at mommy's house and some things at daddy's house. Kids just adapt. Of course they ideal situation is a healthy home life, but that's not what your daughter has. She has an environment where her father causes her mother to feel bad. She'll be okay.

You have to decide and nobody can tell you what to do--

My situation was somewhat different because of the fact he is gay--but I would have stayed. I knew he was cheating for years and I still stayed. When I first found out he was cheating, we had a few tough months, but then I just accepted the fact. I just wanted the stability of him staying. When he left, my kids were SHOCKED because they never saw it coming. I had learned to be happy in my situation. I think we all would have been better off if he had stayed until they were raised.

Odd thing is is we live together part of the time now when I'm in Utah. I never planned on having another relationship as I was very happy single before I married, but the one who got away came back into my life 7 years ago. One thing I can say--no matter how much I love my boyfriend, I will NEVER marry again and I will NEVER live with a man 100% of the time.

Myself--for my kids--I would have stayed. We would have all been better off--and then could have separated after they were raised. But that is just my experience.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2012 08:19PM by cl2.

I disagree.

Among my circle of friends, I am the only one whose parents did not get divorced at some point during our childhoods. My friends are all "normal" people, ie, relatively happy adults, living life how they wish to. None of them found their parents' divorces horrible! life! tragedies! but more, 'just how life is' or 'shit happens' sort of experiences.

FWIW.

Divorce isn't an easy choice, and if you have kids, its not a clean break either. It sounds like you might be better off without him - but if he chooses to be petty and vindictive, there are so many ways he can try to use his position as your daughter's father to make your life miserable. Divorce can give you at least some freedom from an ex-spouse, though. Or maybe a separation would work out better instead. If you're not going to remarry, the legal part might just be more hassle than it's worth, at least for now. Depends on your situation.
I'm happy that I got divorced, even though it wasn't easy. It was the right thing for me to do. No one else can judge your situation, only you can decide what's best for you.

Whether you divorce or not is your business. Do not stay together for the kids. My parents stuck it out until we were all grown, and then divorced 2 years after the youngest left HS. We all knew they were unhappy and did not get along. Even when they weren't openly fighting, they were not happy together. My parents thought we were too young to understand, but we knew what was going on.

When they finally divorced, it was more an "about time" than anything. I don't think they did us many favors by sticking together, although I worry how my mother would have survived financially.

My children were MUCH happier after the divorce.

As long as you keep your daughter's needs in mind while working out the post divorce details (such as visitation and whatnot) then it will most likely be a postive experience for her. It teaches your daughter dreadful things about the worth of women if you let her grow up watching her father be rude, disrespectful and dismissive of her mother.

Dunno. It's a crap shoot.

You're way young so you may not remember the Ann Landers advice column that ran in the newspapers. She always advised women to ask themselves: "Are you better off with him or without him?"

After nearly 20 years of marriage and one year of marriage counseling, I asked myself the same question. He was JackMo. The kids and I had all resigned. I decided we'd be better off without him and filed for divorce. He moved out.

Nine months later we reunited.

Things are better and everyone's happier. Go figure. Hard question.

;o)

I'm actually happy to hear it.

Divorce is NOT EASY--even for the best reasons.

Yes.

suckafoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have always thought of divorce as that very last
> available option. I am willing to withstand a
> whole lot to keep it from happening.

You shouldn't have to "withstand" anything. Your marriage should make your life better, not worse.

>I go along in life feeling groovy as
>long as I avoid too much contact with my spouse.

Contact with your spouse should be desirable, not avoided.

> He says things that make me feel bad.

He doesn't appreciate you, and he has his own personal problems that he needs to resolve.



>But if I divorce my
> daughter who is 8 will suffer scars.

Your daughter will be better off without someone who mistreats her mother.

>Do I keep smiling?

No! Be honest with yourself.

Maybe you don't understand what a marriage relationship should be. Your husband should love you, appreciate you, make you laugh and be your best friend. If he's unable to do that then you should leave him. Why would you settle for anything less, for you or your daughter?

My wife actually had some doubts before me about the church but worked to suppress them. However through this process of suppressing them she and I had some challenging marriage difficulties. Then we hit a brick wall which is why I really started doing my homework on the church's problems. Soon I was an unbeliever and spent the next year trying to reconcile whether I was unbelieving because the church really was false or just because I wanted out of our marriage. I got through that mess and confident that the church is false. Then we spent the next year with me an honest apostate and her still a believer but her own doubts came out and I slowly but surely helped her free herself from the church. That's when our marriage really hit the rocks. She took out all her frustrations over the church on me. And due to the fact I came from a divorced Mormon home I was very sensitive to divorce threats and she gave them aplenty. In the short term her threats always worked to get me to capitulate and do whatever she wanted. But as a result of all these threats I built up a hard shell about me. We went through long periods of not having marital relations that made me very bitter. Eventually we separated and nearly divorced. Then we reconciled but the original problems came back. We've been together and split up several times since. The biggest thing that contributed to us getting back together was our kids. In my opinion there is no easy split when kids are involved if both parents are trying to do right by their kids. An amazing thing evolved through this whole process. She's definitely crazily in love with me and wants to spend the rest of her life with me. I feel the same about her but with a couple reservations that I'm still trying to work through. I never imagined we'd reach this point. In our case this is NOT the typical outcome. During our last separation I was certain I would never go back and made no secret of this to anyone. Then she planned carefully a time for us to get together and have a big talk. She couched it with the statement that we needed to plan the kids' summer. But it quickly became obvious that she wanted to reconcile. And then we had a big long talk for many hours working through many many matters.

anon this time Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------But it >But it quickly became
> obvious that she wanted to reconcile. And then we
> had a big long talk for many hours working through
> many many matters.

And then what???

ha.

;o)

I wish to God my parents had divorced when I was a kid. When my mom asked what I wanted for my 10th birthday, I said "get a divorce". Never happened. Though I know my father loved me, he made my life miserable with his constant yelling, mood swings and temper tantrums. When he died when I was 23, I was simultaneously sad and relieved. I no longer had to walk on eggshells and watch everything I said and did around him.

Divorce is hard on kids, especially when one or both parents acts doesn't act like a responsible adult and put the child's best interests first. A lousy marriage is hard on kids, too and can F*** them up for many years. I know from experience. It took many years to overcome.

suckafoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He says things that make me feel bad.

I would tell him that your relationship as it stands just isn't working and something needs to be done, i.e marriage counseling to improve communication skills. Tell him that he doesn't seem happy and that what he says has the effect of making you feel unhappy. See what he has to say about that.

Tell him that the constant negativity and criticism wears you down and has more to say about his state of mind than anything that may or may not be wrong with you. Assert yourself and make sure that he knows that you have a good opinion of yourself and won't let yourself be mistreated.

When my father was going through his final illness I was somewhat older than your daughter. There was a lot of tension in the house and my parents argued a fair amount (they loved each other, but it was just a tough time all around.) They thought I didn't hear it but I did. I always found their heated disagreements distressing and frightening. Ultimately I was sent to live with another family member. Although the change was wrenching at the time, it was for the best. I moved into a calm, happy home.

I can't tell you what would be best for your daughter, but I would carefully evaluate the atmosphere in your home. Kids are sponges and they pick up more than you might think. Kids want to feel secure. They would prefer if that was achieved with both parents in the household, but ultimately the feeling of being secure and safe is the most important thing, in my opinion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2012 02:09AM by summer.

try to make it work.

have dates together; spend time together; maybe you two are growing apart for whatever reason (work, church, etc)

talk to him about what's bothering you. give him a chance to express himself too.

have him appreciate you for who you are; you do the same for him.

I have no advice for you, because my own divorces were quick and irrevocable. One husband beat and strangled me, so I had to divorce him to save my life. My second husband cheated on me, and abandoned me and our children. I can't imagine ever going back to either one of these jerks.

I can tell you that children are resilient, and mine got through the divorce very well. Their father either ignored them or punished them, and they were relieved to have him out of our life. As for me, I never wanted another spouse, and am grateful for the peace, solitude, and freedom of the single life. There are so many great people to love--without having to be married to any of them.

always a tricky situation... My present wife who forgave me for adulatary, tho seperated for 7 years took me that long and out of it came a prophecy revelation child out of wedlock that was promised in the church but my wife and I totally infertile.
Yet dna result of the loving affair prooved miricals by the devil can happen or allowed to happen, be careful what ya wish for it must might happen but not in the way expected. How I became suddenly fertile is a mirical to science.
The church originally advised me to marry the mother of my child. When My wife forgave me, the church warned me that I would then be accountable to devoice such a saintly wife.

I miss my daugher who is overseas and the mother is a passionate tho still spiritual sex goddess the best of the worse, gold digger typical philipinno but hot as hell and not much younger than me... Yet Humility calls me to repentance and my present wife even more attractive yet incompatible sexually as always was the case because I married for everything but sex and that might of been a mistake..

Does love have to have sexual compatibility to make it work?
It can work but its like w
illing to die for each other than
let another take us away because of sexual attraction even a mirical child out of wedlock...

Had my wife not forgiven me as I dont deserve her anyway,
I would of married the mother of my child.

Its all so difficult, tho if the sin of mastubation is not overcome there is no eternity with my saintly wife anyway
tho I dont even believe the church is totally true anymore.

We all joined the church with family for ever belief plan
the main draw card, as otherwise other churches teach marrige is
optional and no big deal to get to heaven, well single heaven anyway....

I'm studieing buddhism to learn to detach from sexual needs unless it can be intimate but lust surely does not exist at all in my present marrige and that is either a good thing or a bad thing that can lead to misery and fustration.

I'm testing myself out. If marrige was not important for salvation, then I would just stay seperated for ever and not devoice.... I'm still seperated tho there is still a bond with my wife that is teaching me the greatest of humility, the makings of a monk/saint in or out of the church..

Is that what God expects of me? I'm not sure but she is defenetly a saint and no gold digger and never pressures me financially and pays her own way and is a grandmother of 2 children from her kids not mine from her previous marrige in the middle east...She says I have been a bastard but not as much as her ex husband who was 3 times older than her and nearlly bashed her to death in a muslem world....I am a puppy dog compared to him...

What is love? In some cases cutting off our balls and in other situations have the balls to devoice and choose another but if we tell our spouses they are ugly and unattractive its over. I have not done this. She is beautifal but I'm just not sexually matched for her tho I still love her dearly and not devoicing her as it is me that she should devoice because I dont deserve her...

larry...

Other churches teach that marriage is optional??? Who taught you that? Mine does not teach that. Sorry you believe that. Maybe you just mean that Mormonism teaches you MUST get married.

to honestone, yes your right, I meant for getting to heaven no need to be married if can stay worthy. Better to be single and pure and married and impure.

I have just posted my own thread. what is love (sexual compatibility issues)..

Larry....

Try a separation, see if you, your daughter and others actually aren't happier. My kids were relieved when they could be free from their mom for a time. I sure was.

When my mother divorced my father, she did so after exhausting every single resource available to her to make it work. She figured if it had to happen, she can look back and say she tried everything.

Me, the child of divorce, is no worse for wear. I was actually relieved they finally did it... relieved, YES! It's over! Not that post divorce was easy, but I'm not in the "wounded camp" as far as children of divorce go. It was better.

I followed the same route. My husband turned out to be an abuser of the insidious emotionally abusive sort, it took me a few years just to realize what was happening. I did everything I could to make it work, thinking that at the end of the day, I can, at the very least, say I did everything I could to make my marriage work. I can look back with no regrets.

He ultimately started going after me physically, so trying longer and harder was out the window.

It's tough, but your daughter will be fine so long as you and your husband can maintain a good working post divorce relationship. I'm guessing a good half of her classmates already have divorced parents, so she's probably already privy to how that works.

You just can't stay in misery. It rubs off on them, they know, they see it, they feel it. If you've done everything you can do to make it work, you can split with no regrets. Being a single mom with kids bouncing around households isn't easy by any stretch. If I could go back in time and figure out one little thing that could have salvaged the relationship, I would. It would be far easier that way, but that just wasn't in the cards and you move on.

My parents stayed together "for the children."

We had a miserable childhood and are all dealing with the impact of living in that household 30+ years later. God it was horrible.

Your life does have value. As long as you completely disregard the importance of your happiness you are sending a really destructive message to your daughter. Is this how you'd want her to continue to live if she gets in this kind of situation 30 years from now? That's what you're teaching her she should do. Make certain that's the lesson you want to convey if you decide to stay with an abuser "for her."

I recommend "Too Good to leave, too bad to stay" by Mira Kirshenbaum. This book goes through different aspects of relationships, and whether or not a couple would do better to work on those issues (whether or not the relationship could get better) or whether or not it's worth letting go.

I think this type of analysis would be good for people BEFORE they get married. There's no way you could know all of this stuff if you marry after knowing each other for three weeks.

I'll also say, unfortunately many of the moms I know who have gotten divorced have not always done so well financially. In particular, this is if they were not fully financially stable before the divorce. It is really hard. I am not saying that a person should stay in a bad or intolerable situation. But I recommend thinking very seriously about finances and what that will mean.

Kids learn to accept what they see in their own home as normal. If your husband is demeaning to you, and you accept it, she may do the same someday. People have a way of replaying stuff they grew up with in their adult lives.

I'm not saying that divorce is the answer. Maybe counseling would work. Maybe not. Mean people don't often change. But I would seek out someone who deals with emotional abuse who can help you try to draw boundaries with your husband and try to teach him how to treat you.

You asked if it is selfish to want out. No way! That's self-RESPECT, and self-PRESERVATION. You deserve better, even if that means being alone.

My marriage has become so mind-numbing I don't know anymore if I'm happy or not. Sex sucks, the bitching is continual, the judement is pretty one-sided, the money is spent unevenly, but I don't even know if this is normal anymore. Would it be any different with anyone else? How much of it is me? I don't even know anymore. I do know that I try hard. I don't think the other half does . . . doesn't seem like it. I think I'm generally unhappy about a lot of things, but I don't even know if this is normal. Does one need to just suck it up or is something actually wrong? I know that relationships must have an element of give and take, but to what degree? I've lost my objectivity--if objectivity is even possible to some degree or another. I know I don't feel loved . . . at least not as I define love. But maybe my definition of love needs to change. I don't know anymore. I'm now past 20 years in this relationship. I feel somewhat stupified and enervated. What if I left and my life got worse rather than better? People who know me don't know that what I've written could possibly exist in me. I think it's pretty deep down inside. Am I unhappily married or not?

How's that for some rambling about marriage and happiness? BTW, I spit this out pretty fast so I don't get "caught." Excuse typos . . .

Wow... I think your description of your marriage is very sad.

Yesterday, I was enjoying a cup of coffee made by my husband and I said it was really good. He said, "Yeah, that's one of your favorite blends."

I asked him which blend it was and he said Peets Garuda.

It struck me as amazing that my husband knows more about what my most trivial likes and dislikes are than I do and cares enough about me to remember them. It made me realize how lucky I am to be with him.

We're in our 10th year of marriage and I can't imagine life without him.

I think if you're feeling that numb and discombobulated, maybe you should take a few minutes to decide whether or not you want to spend the rest of your life that way. Life is short.