Carol Lynn Pearson has posted her account of the meeting where Marlin Jensen apologized on her website, here:

http://www.clpearson.com/Elder%20Marlin%20K.%20Jensen%20Listens%20to%20Prop%208%20Pain.pdf

Many of you will see parts of it as an apologetic for the church, but her account of Connell O'Donovan's speech is gripping. I am sure that Jensen will be unable to convey the experience adequately to "the brethren," but hearing the people in this stake had to be a life-changing experience for him.

If I had a gay loved one, I would do everything in my power to get them out of the toxic, homophobic environment that the LDS church is. But for those who stay, I thank the leaders of the Oakland Stake for the work they have done (partly due to Carol Lynn's unrelenting work in educating them) to try to make a difference.

I have met Merlin Jensen and think that he is a good person. I accept that his heart was touched and that he was overcome by emotion when he heard of the suffering those affiliated with the LDS church experienced because of the LDS church's involvement with the Proposition 8 measure in California.

I also accept his statement that the LDS church will never change its position as to who should marry and that gay members will be required to live celibate lives.

This admission alone makes me wonder why anyone gay would remain in the LDS church.

I also think the LDS leadership have used him as a patsy. Assignments are made well in advance of who will visit a stake conference. If the LDS church really cared about this issue it would have done things differently.

The stories Jensen heard are not new, they unfortunately are ones, which keep repeating in the homophobic policies caused by the homophobic leaders of the LDS church. The leaders of the LDS church could have had a meeting like the one reported PRIOR TO involving itself in the Proposition 8 issue. Church leaders didn't because they don't care how their homophobic attitudes and policies hurt gay church members and their families.

Merlin Jensen was sent for a purpose. Instead of sending someone with real authority, they sent a mid-level manager to hear disgruntled views Jensen's meek demeanor is well known and a calculated decision was made to send him to soften the hearts of those affected so the LDS church could continue to move down the path it has chosen. And it appears their decision was a good one.

For the next ten years every time a gay LDS member or family member suffers persecution at church, many will point to Carol Lynn Pearson's report and say: "Be patient, the church is evolving." No, the church isn't evolving. Merlin Jensen evolved. But unfortunately, Jensen just bought another ten years of more patience from those who have suffered so greatly already.

The LDS church won't have a 1978-ish revelation on homosexuality. It may become more tolerant but it will never become accepting, endorsing, caring, supportive or open to gays and gay relationships. Gays will never be allowed to be married in temples, serve openly in bishoprics, stake presidencies, or relief society presidencies. They will never be asked to be youth leaders, unless they hide their fundamental sexuality. Their adopted children will never be sealed to them in LDS temples - ever. Sad considering even Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun were sealed in LDS temples by proxy.

It is immortal to ask human beings to suppress their individual sexual identity and to deny their basic biological need to be physically loved, especially when those reasons are not based on science or health, but on millennia old mythology and bigotry.

While I respect Merlin Jensen and Carol Lynn Pearson, I believe they were used by the LDS Church to pacify the disaffected and hurt. The real issues and needs of gay members will continue to be ignored and Merlin Jensen will go the way of Hugh B. Brown - paved over by the ultra-conservative orthodox corporate brutality mindset of those that are called "prophets, seers and revelators."

My advice to gays is to view the LDS church for its actions and hold it responsible for the hatred and hurt it causes you. And to leave it. It will never change to embrace you as you warrant. You deserve to live a happy live. Do not let good intentioned people, but powerless ones, like Jensen continue to feed you intoxicants hoping that your deadened senses will stay pacified by occasional doses of empathy.

I agree with most of what you said. It's "immoral", not "immortal" (a typo, obviously) to ask human beings to suppress their sexual identity.

I'm not sure the church intentionally sent Jensen to the stake conference for exactly this purpose, as the session was set up by the stake presidency, and does not appear to have been foreseen by Jensen. I think it is very possible that they sent Jensen as the visiting authority, though, knowing that he would be most likely to be well-received in a stake that includes Berkeley, and where the stake presidency had already done what triage it could by doing a presentation on treating gay people well in every ward in the stake.

I also don't think that the church has any way to consciously control Carol Lynn, though certainly they will use whatever she says to their advantage if they are able to do so. For her part, Carol Lynn is doing what she can to help gay Mormons, knowing that many will not leave, even though they would have better lives if they they did.

I don't know that they will never had a 1978-style revelation on homosexuality, though I certainly don't expect one in my lifetime. The LDS church would have to go the route of the Community of Christ (former RLDS) to have that happen, and I don't see that happening any time soon. IF the church fundamentally changes in the way if views itself, as part of a larger Christian faith rather than the "only true church," then it could also change its stance on homosexuality. Such an eventuality is currently unthinkable, but I can't predict what the church might do in the future to maintain its existence, if the larger world gets over its homophobia.

While I have doubts about whether Jensen was specifically sent there to say what he said, I have NO doubts that the church uses him to placate the more thinking and liberal members of the church.

With those few quibbles, I agree with what you have said, especially that the church hasn't evolved, Jensen has evolved. I'm just a little less certain that you are that it will never evolve. It might not, but if it comes down to having to concede on homosexuality, because it's become America's marginalized laughing-stock--well, it gave in on polygamy. So maybe.

I did catch the typo later, thanks for correcting.

The stake has no organizational control over stake conference or visiting authorities. The date for a stake conference and the GA attending, if any, is all set by LDS Church HQ.

We don't have much disagreement here, but from what I have read,Jensen asked if there was anything of particular concern that should be addressed in the small meeting, and it was the stake presidency that chose the topic and, I presume, did the inviting of the people who came. So my inclination is to think that Jensen did not plan out his apology in advance, let alone was he directed to give it.

From what I know of Jensen, from a few people who know or have worked with him, he is a genuinely decent guy who would indeed be touched by hearing of the pain that Prop 8 and the church's treatment of gays/lesbians caused.

My guess is that not only was he not sent there to apologize, but also that he might be in a bit of trouble for saying what he said. Some in the "bloggernacle" are wondering if he is going to get to be the mission president of, say, Antarctica. I think that might have happened at an earlier time, but it is harder for them to do that to people in the Internet Age.

Gee, BKP is making me look like a prophet

don't you think they would have known how prop 8 would have played out? They could have saved all their money and embarrassment to the church if there were such a thing as revelation.

Do believing Mormon's not see how uninspired the church is?

To them the whole prop 8 campaign was a huge success. It allowed the church to stand up for truth and right and get lots of media exposure for their righteousness.

Sure a lot of people got upset, but they are just lost souls under the influence of Satan, not the righteous, honest in heart, who have been searching for truth......Separate wheat from chaff....blah blah blah... You know how Mormons have an explanation for everything. It doesn't matter what happens, the church is still true and everything the church does is inspired.

Sadly, I think the general membership will be able to ignore a whole lot of ugliness because they are insulated by their faith. I think change in the church will come faster through the courts and tax policy than it ever will from a grass roots member level efforts.

Stunted.

Nobody has any right to question the authorities of the church. The fact that an entire Stake is at it means that first, the SP will be released. Next will be heavy interviews aimed at the Bishop and then at the next Stake Conference when the new SP is presented there will be a full-on attack from the visiting GA over the pulpit.

This ain't gona be pretty, but I sure wish I could be there to watch it unfold.

There may be hell to pay, or there may not. To see what else this stake has done, go here:

http://www.clpearson.com/oaklandstake.htm

At this web page, Carol Lynn Pearson describes the series of meetings that were done by her stake presidency, and she includes the talks that people gave. I find it pretty remarkable.

What this stake presidency did is no secret. As you will see if you go to the page is that an account of the meetings was written up in the Salt Lake Tribune. And even before Carol Lynn posted the texts of the talks, at least portions of the compiled information were circulating by email. I have not heard of any effort to quash it, though admittedly I am not connected to any circles where I would easily find that out.

I still believe that the LDS church is a highly toxic place for gay people, and I think gay people can have a more fulfilled and happy life outside of it than in it. Some are determined to stay, though, and for those, I think the Oakland Stake would be about as good as it gets. So I have to give credit where I think it is due, and it seems to me that some credit is due to the stake presidency there. They are doing the best they can in a homophibic church to make things work for gay people and for those who have gay loved ones.

This is the background of the meeting that Jensen walked into. Just to be in a stake where homosexuality can be openly discussed, and where the members have been allowed and encouraged to "speak truth to power" is pretty amazing in a church where no one is supposed to do that, and everyone is supposed to tell leaders how wonderful they are and how inspired they are and how they alone know the "mind and will" of God.

We may yet see Jensen and the stake president face retaliation, but if we do, there will be yet another round of bad publicity for the church over this issue. I think it is more likely that the LDS hierarchy will just try to wait for it to blow over. Then after that, these men will be quietly released in due time and their church "careers" will go no further.

And perhaps there is a very good chance that many people will leave ther church if the hammer comes down. It's good to see what the people and their local leaders are doing, but the church won't stand for it- cuz if they let it continue it could spread.


I think that in my original response it may have sounded like I was against what the Stake was doing. I'm not. Just a little bit of a gleeful prediction of the church looking very wrong.

Jensen is a genuinely decent guy. He was valedictorian of U of U law back in the day and is also a smooth silk savvy and valuable PR cog. He was one of the most well received Mos in the Frontline documentary by outsiders. TSCC's think tank has used him for litmus testing and 'mainstream' relations smoothing in the past. I think this will blow over.

The problem is not that the leaders are jerks. The problem is that the leaders are Mormons.

Jensen can shed tears over the misery the Church causes but he won't say anything will change other than cosmetically. He sees the pain it causes. He knows the misery the Church broadcasts. However he will be true to the organization and its policies because he is a Mormon.

Mormonism takes good men and makes them bad.