>>In discussing gay marriage with bigoted debaters, they claim marriage is and always has been a religious institution. What are your thoughts?
My thoughts are: anyone that stupid is not worth "debating."
You will sooner teach a pig to sing operatic arias before you'll ever be able to inform one of those types that they don't know what they're talking about.
But there is only one true church, and it only existed for a couple hundred years after Christ, and since 1830.
Assuming these are TBMs you are debating, they also uphold the law of the land being subject to rulers. They gave their control of marriage to rulers a long long time ago.
agreed! It just amazes me how incredibly mean, narrow minded, elitist and condescending these people are. Just because someone believes in a God doesn't mean there is one. And if there is a God, there's no way he would back them up on their cruelty. I am sorry if I offend anyone, but my observation is too often religions breed hatred, judgment, and division.
Marriage most likely started as some kind of situation where the man owned the woman--to get her off the market. At some point he had to buy her or fight for her. And at another point, the man started getting paid to take her, the dowry. So many cultures define it that it is difficult to generalize.
At some point as with everything else in our lives, the whole event received a good injection of religion.
The argument that marriage always was and should be a religious based occurrence just doesn't hold water.
Even if it did, so what? Almost all paint used to have lead in it too. Who wants to go back to that?
I associate champagne with weddings more than I do religion.
Marriage is a religious rite. It is my understanding that during the westward expansion there were often not ministers available and couples would apply to civil authority to solemnize unions. Also homesteading offered land to a man along with additional acreage available to be claimed in the name of his wife. More for the kids. How to prove the relationships? Have them recorded by a government agency. Why or when does government do anything for free? Never. Some couples weren't religious and just wanted the recording. Marriage became a civil institution.
In my opinion, marriage should be return to the religious practioners and the government should only be in the business of registering the relationship for legal purposes. Instead of calling the civil registration "marriage", call it registered relationship for legal purposes. The Justice of the peace or court clerk or judge could still mumble words for a fee.
Government should not and never should have been involved in marriage!
Let the various god representatives unite who, where and what they may.
Let the government unite and / or register the relationship desired by the society. No tax breaks for anyone but dependents.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2012 02:43PM by slatheredtwice.
I wrote my considered opinion based on a smattering of history delving. What got your panties in a bunch to make such a statement in regard to my post. Once again religion rose out of religion and government should play no role. Whatever else we as a society deem to do regarding interpersonal relationships is fine with me.
Marriage can be recognized by a state, an organization, a religious authority, a tribal group, a local community or peers. It is often viewed as a contract. Civil marriage is the legal concept of marriage as a governmental institution irrespective of religious affiliation, in accordance with marriage laws of the jurisdiction.
ooh wait God invented Marriage...so sorry please ignore my Wiki citation...::carry on::
EDITED FOR MORE: From the early Christian era (30 to 325 CE), marriage was thought of as primarily a private matter, with no uniform religious or other ceremony being required.[51] However, bishop Ignatius of Antioch writing around 110 to bishop Polycarp of Smyrna exhorts, "[I]t becomes both men and women who marry, to form their union with the approval of the bishop, that their marriage may be according to God, and not after their own lust."[52]
In the 12th century[where?] women were obligated to take the name of their husbands and starting in the second half of the 16th century[where?] parental consent along with the church's consent was required for marriage.[53]
With few local exceptions, until 1545, Christian marriages in Europe were by mutual consent, declaration of intention to marry and upon the subsequent physical union of the parties.[54][55] The couple would promise verbally to each other that they would be married to each other; the presence of a priest or witnesses was not required.[56] This promise was known as the "verbum." If freely given and made in the present tense (e.g., "I marry you"), it was unquestionably binding;[54] if made in the future tense ("I will marry you"), it would constitute a betrothal. One of the functions of churches from the Middle Ages was to register marriages, which was not obligatory
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2012 03:45PM by bignevermo.
If they use the Bible as reference then they are a bit off. Yes there were marriages mentioned in the Bible but no where in the Bible is there a way to be married no real ceremony. So to me marriage is more of a civil thing. I hope Gay marriage is allowed legally in all of the the United States one day.
Religion was about "wives as possessions" with the commandments against adultery, murder, stealing, etc. simply about depriving another of his "possessions."
Marriage was long a "political institution," and it's worth noting in Egypt there was a "fusion" between the religions and the government, creating the sort of theocracy we saw in Utah circa 1849-58...
Of course a lot of those marriages were "dynastic," often between siblings or half-siblings...
And of course information like that is something the LDS Church would rather have us look the other way over
Marriage is a contract between two people. They agree to share property and potential off-spring, along with all the other legal obligations that go with marriage. You do not need a bishop or priest to get married, but you do need a legal certificate.
When you get divorced, you get a lawyer and go to a judge to severe your contract. You don't need to call the priest or bishop who married you.
Marriage is a government enforced contract that religion decides to bless.