Following the logic, this is where my mind went this morning.

When we stopped blessing our food every meal, the kids were a bit concerned but I told them that all the people around us don't bless their food, and they don't die of food poisoning. We can be grateful for the food, and enjoy it, without blessing every meal, and grateful for the people who provided it, not just God, or me who did the preparing in the final step.

If we are focused on being grateful to God for our food, we miss thinking about the farmers who struggle to produce the food, the truckers who haul it, the grocers who stock it, the FDA who regulate it (for good or bad). We miss a whole lot of people who we should be thinking about.

If we don't think about them, how can we have empathy for their situation, and in turn, be of any help (in a regulatory way, or relief capacity, etc.)?

When we are so focused on God, instead of people, who do we relate to? God. Who do we have empathy for? God. (We similarly feel bad for God's sacrifice - so much pain for sin.) If we have empathy for God, feeling bad that he had to suffer, we start to judge and condemn ourselves and OTHERS for putting God through that. Does God need our empathy? Nope (not if he's all powerful).

To make our world a better place, wouldn't it be better to focus on, and have empathy for, the people who actually live in it, instead of some being on another planet (real or not)?

AGREE. Religion turns Everything on its head.

Jimmy Stewart: (May 20, 1908 – July 2, 1997) (‘Charlie Anderson’): Lord, we cleared this land. We plowed it, sowed it, and harvested it. We cooked the food. It wouldn't be here and we wouldn't be eating it if we hadn't done it all ourselves. We worked dog-bone hard for every crumb and morsel, but we thank you Lord just the same for the food we're about to eat, amen. Shenandoah (movie), 1965



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2012 10:39AM by guynoirprivateeye.

I have a funny story that goes along with this line of reasoning.

When I went back to school and got a master's degree, my parents and I weren't talking too much. My parents are magical thinking Mormons. I finished about 9 months before, but decided to walk in the spring so my kids could see me graduate. My parents were contemplating on going on a mission about the same time I walked. They actually told me and my wife that the reason I graduated with a master's degree was because they were THINKING about going on a mission and the blessings were given to the whole family.

Nevermind I actually finished months before, and it was done at extreme personal cost.

My mother in law spent the day in the temple fasting and praying about how she was going to fix major repairs on her house, while I was home doing it. Then when she got home and they were done, she gave all the praise to the lord and herself for fasting and going to the temple. She never even said thanks.

Not that this is a universal indicator, but I've received some nasty flak of late concerning my rather pro and vocal stance in relation to same-sex marriage.

After dispelling the same tired arguments it finally boils down to the government forcing churches (not the chicken place) to perform same-sex marriage ceremonies which is more than a few light-years from the truth.

They argue as though gays and lesbians pose some sort of threat to god, which I suppose they do in this matter, and that I am supporting the ultimate down-fall of christianity as we know it, which I suppose I am.

I'm somewhat troubled that so many folks place an imaginary, no-show sky daddy and his fragile ego above liberty, equality and freedom for real folks, but what do I know.

My take is that once we conclude we're on our own, we'll likely huddle a little closer to one another for comfort.

Timothy

...that one person working can accomplish more than a hundred people praying. So imagine how much further along humanity might be if everyone worked more and prayed less.

Mormons like to say, "Oh, look how much knowledge and the sciences have progressed since the restoration of the gospel!" But the truth is, the upswing started long before, and in places where religious piety wasn't the number one thing.

Call me SILLY... but:

I'd like to see just the slimmest smidgen of EVIDENCE that those are related.


IMHO, just another Talking Point for the Talking Heads from Morland.


"Oh, I guess that's Only My Idea"!

I like the idea of ritualized gratification.

There is a Jewish practice I heard (through a Jewish friend who was studying the traditions more deeply) about where they meditate in some way on all the different people who labored to make the food available to them, the farmers, shopkeepers, chefs/cooks, and in modern times truckers, etc... It was a way of cultivating gratitude and consciousness of universal connection for people.

I guess if one conceptualizes God as the external sky being, then it is not that to be grateful for. If God is conceived of as a universal life force that animates all whether plants or humans, then there is perhaps in that way a 'God' to be grateful to.

In my case, as in most, I don't grow my own food or prep it much of the time. So I like some contemplative process that connects and takes a moment. There is a Hindu chant to the Goddess of food. I don't really believe there is a Goddess out there over food, but I think there is something sweet about it. I haven't learned the chant, but I have thought about it. I like the idea of traditions for gratitude and connection to life. Mother Earth is another general prayer centering option.

I think it can all add some poetry and romance to life like many of the arts do.

My opinion: Mixed. Depends on the God image, at least for individuals. I have read a couple of studies on how God image affects mental health. A negative God image negatively affects mental health, but a positive God image in beneficial. I don't know that the results can be generalized to "humanity" but I think it may hold to a degree.

dot Wrote:

> To make our world a better place, wouldn't it be
> better to focus on, and have empathy for, the
> people who actually live in it, instead of some
> being on another planet (real or not)?

In the New Testament Jesus is reported to have said that the two great commandments are to love God and to love your neighbor. It this were observed, loving God and loving others would not be mutually exclusive. For some people doing one means doing the other.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2012 12:14PM by robertb.

robertb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> In the New Testament Jesus is reported to have
> said that the two great commandments are to love
> God and to love your neighbor. It this were
> observed, loving God and loving others would not
> be mutually exclusive. For some people doing one
> means doing the other.

Granted. BUT, does that include those lovely quotes by Brigham Young? (paraphrased) "Jesus meant that to love others you would be willing to kill them so their blood could atone for their sins" One example of loving your neighbor to their detriment! Who needs enemies when you've got such loving church members?

People often think they are doing God's will instead of having empathy for others (the church's stance on gay marriage being one instance). Loving god and loving others can be, and often is, mutually exclusive.

Unfortunately, what you say is too often true. That is why I said "mixed" and "it depends." I think partly it depends on whether people conceive of God as their particular tribal God (different treatment for "us" and "them") or as universal (all people loved and treated alike).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2012 03:35PM by robertb.

In my opinion, yes. It seems that religion has fought science every step of the way. Who knows, without religion we might be immortal by now do to our prowess with stem cells or some other technology had religion not stemmed scientific discovery by labeling it blasphemy.

Seems that religion justifies a lot of war, revenge (eye for an eye), discrimination (i.e. darker skin, gays), terrorism and just plain stupidity (the examples given above of magical thinking). I for one, believe that the World would be a much better place without religion.

Certainly on a macro sense, I Agree.

However, some individuals who 'aren't under the spell' can do better. Lots of Mormons thrive in the Highly-Structured experience; whether for 'Better' or Worse depends mostly on their individual goals & methods (Yes, I know Mormonism supresses those)

We're an industrialized nation with some of the highest rates of imprisonment, child fatality rates, etc. I'd say America's focus on "God" has held her back as a civilized nation.

“The hands that help are better far than the lips that pray” -- Robert Ingersoll

Guess not! It's been part of the human experience for eons. Statistics show that most people of the world believe in God in some manner. People's beliefs and how they manifest them determine where god is good or bad for humanity.

Yes, focusing on God is bad for humanity...not because god doesn't exist, but because "serving god" is just all-too-suspiciously serving mammon (whatever-the-hell mammon means).

I think the personalized god is what is harmful. Money = blessings from god. If I pray, god will help me find my car keys while letting some child starve to death. God gets angry and punishes innocent people because of gay marriage.

Or, you could think of god as the force that brought the universe into being. Or say a life force that does not judge or impact our daily lives.

dk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the personalized god is what is harmful.
> Money = blessings from god. If I pray, god will
> help me find my car keys while letting some child
> starve to death. God gets angry and punishes
> innocent people because of gay marriage.
>
> Or, you could think of god as the force that
> brought the universe into being. Or say a life
> force that does not judge or impact our daily
> lives.

yeah, I really think it depends on your definition of god. But having said that, I'm still unravelling mormonism, so I guess my definition for this thought experiment was the "mormon" interpretation of God - although probably other religions view God similarly.

When I understood that, I realised just how weird Mormonism really is.

The last time my home teacher taught me, he rambled on about how the lawrd had blessed him and helped him finish school so he could get a good job. As an outside observer, I noticed how his new wife had taken on the responsibility of raising his young children, this after being done raising her own children from her previous marriage. Not to mention the fact that she also worked full time while he went to school Yes, god helped him finish school, not his wife.