Sigh... This is mindless devotion from a young man - "Mormons don't think they are better than anyone else, its the fact that we have more."

---email from Ben W. May 2012 -----


Hello, my name is Benjamin and I'm a 19 year old Mormon. Having said that, I've never felt the holy spirit in any other church. This website depicts me and my faith as a joke and/or a drug that is in desperate need of 'recovery'. have you ever read the book of Mormon? try focusing on what the belief consists of rather than what the people do. I know that Christ died for my sins, that i may live again. Is that not the same? i not only have one holy book to gain knowledge of God from, but two and maybe more to come. Judge lest ye be judged. This website needs shut down. i don't call mormonism a religion. It's a knowledge that can only by gained by reading the book of Mormon, another collection of prophecies that point to Christ and a second coming. the end. And when the end comes, which i believe is in my lifetime, do you want to be judged by the Lord for putting down your fellow man? If there need be an organization such as yours, it should be toward ignorance of christianity as a whole. Mormons don't think they are better than anyone else, its the fact that we have more. And you reject the words of God, for the book of Mormon was translated by young farm boy from an ancient Egyptian writing. There are words in the book that haven't been used in centuries. there is no way that the book of Mormon was made up. And if it weren't made up, and it's words are true, who did they come from? The very God that gave his only son. Joseph Smith translated the golden plates through his devotion and faith in the holy spirit. So read the book, and when you find yourself thinking that it isn't true and it's just a bunch of made up stories and good teachings, then you have fallen to temptation. When you realize that the devil himself keeps you from reading the book, you will open your eyes.

... must be prepping for a mission.

Good luck (you're gonna need it)!

Timothy

How is it that they think we've never read the Book of Mormon? Why do they think we didn't pray while we were reading it, and didn't try to feel the spirit?

When I became inactive, various Mormons were constantly admonishing me to read the BOM, and my reply was that I had read it 7 times, had read all the other scriptures, too, plus years and years of Sunday school classes, had taught Sunday school, had graduated from seminary, had taken mandatory scripture classes at BYU, plus extra institute classes. How would reading it an eighth time help?

(I hated the damn thing every time I read it.)

Exactly what I was thinking. He thinks we never read the bofm?

From my experience, I have read it more than any one who has told me to read it or offered to drop a copy by.

I'm pretty sure I read the B of M many more times than my active while I am not/out.

Ironic, isn't it?

Duh, you forgot to read it 'without' being in Satan's temptations while reading it.

Now go for your eighth time and leave Satan out of it for once. It's soooo simple even a nineteen year old knows that.

I'm trying to read it now, for the sake of research, but it is just so mind numbingly boring and stupid.

And just how many other church services do you think he has attended? My guess would be exactly zero.

+1... I was thinking the same thing. And I haven't read the BoM. My husband gave me a copy when we started dated, but I found it extremely hard to read and boring. People who were raised in the church have no doubt read parts of the BoM, if not the whole thing. I guess this fellow thinks that anyone who didn't have the same experience he had must not have a valid opinion.

Idiot.

TSCC has commanded members to not read anti-literature. If they do, they will fall into apostasy. I'm living proof.

It took years, but I never forgot what I read about the church and like a little worm in my brain it kept nibbling away. Ok, that's not a good analogy but you get my meaning.

menomore, formerly Robin

Sadly, the Church raises and teaches them to presumptuous and arrogant. One can but hope that “life” teaches him otherwise.

Shut the website down? But of course. Typical Mormn thinking.

When Mormons don't like what someone writes they want to shut them down or destroy the presses.

Yes, because it worked so well for Joseph Smith, eh?

It would be great if he could free himself before his life gets started down the wrong path. He is just a sproutling starting out. He will get himself all strapped in with a wife and kids then possibly lose all of it if he discovers the truth too late.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2012 09:03AM by suckafoo.

Why should I read the BoM? Will I learn what Mormon's believe about God or Gods, heaven, eternal progression, what is required for salvation?

The Book of Mormon teaches one God, not plural gods as in Mormonism. It says there are only two possible fates after death: heaven or hell, not three degrees of glory. The Book Mormon states that God is a spirit, not a exalted man with a body of flesh and bones as Mormonism teaches. The Book of Mormon states that Jesus and God are the same, not separate beings. The book makes no mention of temple marriage or secret temple ceremonies; in fact it specifically condemns “secret combinations”. It does not teach baptism for the dead, pre-existence of man, eternal progression or polygamy. It does not command abstinence from alcohol, tea or coffee. The Christ of the Book of Mormon says that the gospel of faith, repentance, baptism ONLY and that any teaching beyond that will lead to hell; current Mormon doctrine says these things are only the beginning and that much more is required (obedience, tithes, endowment, etc.).

He's never felt the same spirit in any other church because they are not familiar to him. Just as he does not recognize that the woman standing next to him is one ofthe sweetest most loving mothers around. Why? Because she is someone elses mother.

Oh well, at least he is strong in his convictions. Lots of youth are too busy texting and goofing off to stand up for what they believe.

Oh and ummmm, Ben W, the plates did not contain ancient Egyptian- please compare such writing against the Anthon charators...

This young man (or woman) is a perfect example of what the LDS Church churns out year after year. Indoctrinated since birth, the poor kid is a walking automaton programmed to say exactly what the 15 Pharisees have decreed.

Not a semblance of critical thinking skills.

Oh, dear.

You know, this is a kid. A child. A nineteen-year-old. Most nineteen-year-olds are genuine ignoramuses. He does not know what he does not know. His brain is not yet fully formed. His judgment center isn't developed yet.

So scary to think that the MORmON church sends these unformed, uninformed, ignorant kids out to preach. Dear god!

What a pompous idiot.

He needs to put down the BoM and pick up a college education so he learn common grammar, how to write well and critical thinking skills.

This site "needs shut down" - did he forget "to be" or do people really speak this way? Do cars need parked? Doors need shut? Dogs need walked?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2012 09:29AM by wittyname.

> ---email from Ben W. May 2012 -----
> have you ever read
> the book of Mormon? try focusing on what the
> belief consists of rather than what the people
> do.

This was the sentence that stood out to me the most. Because what GOOD is the Book of Mormon, who cares if the teachings are true and from Christ if they don't inspire the people to be like Christ? If what the people do who follow the Book of Mormon is live their lives as a giant middle finger to everything the Savior taught, everything he stood for, aren't you WORSE for following the Mormon Church. If what the people do is so in contrary to what the Book of Mormon teaches, it can't be that inspiring but rather damaging to it's readers.


> the devil himself keeps you from reading the book,
> you will open your eyes.

Benjamin, honey, you are the one who is refusing to see this from both sides. We've all been faithful Mormons like you and we had our eyes opened to look at both sides. You only see what you want to see - you only see your side. What if we are right? Everything in you that says you love the Savior should care enough to investigate our claims. He should mean more to you than the Book of Mormon or the LDS church and if you are given a lot of specific information that says he isn't to be found in the LDS church, finding out whether that information is true or a lie should be your most important quest. But you bury your head in the sand and refuse to look at anything that doesn't validate what you want to believe. That tells me more about what you really think of the Savior than anything else you've said. You want the church to be your God and it's your life - your choice. But you are the one who refused to consider the possibilities and refused to follow the Savior at all cost.

And remember JS was just a few years older when he founded the church.

I'm still ROFLing over "judge lest ye be judged..."

Yes, in fact it was fine judging on my part that mormanity is full of nonsense and not fit for taking up my time and money.

What a sage young man for nineteen. He just summed up the entirety of Latter-day Saint culture in five succinct words!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2012 10:41AM by flyboy21.

AT his age I would have written the same thing. I can't believe how hard it made me laugh now--at my old self as much as anything.

What he doesn't get, is we know more about the BoM than he does.

same with me, Blue, at 19 I was in the exact same place

Now that I'm wiser and I have children his age, I look at his information with the eye of a parent knowing that this poor deluded child is simply doing what he's been told to do.

I hope he doesn't realize too late that his firm commitment will cost him more than he gains.

GeekChick

Benjamin, Benji, Benj......

Buddy.... The entire LDS religion is a man made concoction. It is provably a fraud and that is what so many of us here have found out.

We did not leave because it was true... we left because it is a lie.

There are a lot of places you can find out the truth about the church. A good place to start is mormonthink.com

He he!

The Mormon Church does not teach Christ's teachings. It brings "another gospel" cloaked in his name, in ever larger fonts to hide the truth.

Some examples:

WORD OF WISDOM. Jesus taught that it didn't matter what you ate or drank, but what came out of your mouth mattered. INSTEAD, Mormons have made it an obsession to identify and punish those who drink alcohol and coffee.

GREATEST COMMANDMENT. Jesus taught that the greatest commandment is to love God and love your neighbor. INSTEAD, Mormons teach that the greatest commandments are to pray, pay, and obey.

MATTER FIRST OR SPIRIT FIRST. The Bible teaches that God breathed his spirit into man after his body was created. Mormons teach that his spirit lived before, was tested in another life, failed or was "valiant," made choices, etc.

BARRING FROM TEMPLE. Jesus condemned the Pharisees who barred the poor from the temple because they couldn't purchase the required offering. INSTEAD, Mormons restored the requirement of payment (of back tithing) for return of full temple privileges.

SALVATION. Christians believe Christ's death at Calvary atoned for our all our sins. INSTEAD, Mormons believe that even after Christ's sacrifice, you are only saved "after all you can do." Additionally, Brigham Young claimed you had to spill your own blood on the earth in order to be saved from the crime of murder. Thus invalidating the sweeping nature of the atonement and allowing Mormons to "help" murderers by killing them.

I could go on, but I'll stop with these because Benjamin needs a wider education. The factoids he learned in seminary, which he is regurgitating in hopelessly inadequate grammar, should have been spent learning to communicate effectively in the English language.

Benjamin have more but can't right. Why now logic?

Anagrammy

I think this kid is not a native english speaker, therefore probably a recent convert and newly zealous.

If he's a BIC native speaker of the english language, though, god help us all.

I thought they weren't teaching end of world prophesies anymore? Cuz it sounds too cultish.

I have read the BofM FIVE times...it is a boring bunch of made up lies

I feel sorry for this poor boy...he is wasting his time with a cult. I hope that someday he will be able to look past the brainwashing and think for himself.

pre-mission to Uganda.

So Satan is the god of boredom?

OK, Benji, explain a few things to me:

1. How does Nephi know what a Bible is in 600 BC? (2 Nephi 29 "a bible, a bible, we already have a bible, we don't need another bible"). The Bible wasn't even a word or a concept until the 3rd Century A.D. Before that time, holy writ was a collection of scrolls from different sources, so no-one would have cared about there being more than one "Bible" or book, or parchment, whatever you want to call it.

2. How do you explain that god is against polygamy in the book of Jacob, and for polygamy in D&C 132?

3. How does a headless man rise up on his knees and gasp for breath( Book of Ether ).

4. How did Moroni get a copy of the Book of Revelations? The Revelations of John are mentioned by name in the Book of Ether.

5. How did Moroni get a copy of the Letters of Paul? He quotes them extensively.

6. Name one pre-columbian native american culture that knew how to make steel swords, rode horses, and spoke egyptian AND hebrew.
7. Why does Jacob speak French? Does the last verse in the Book of Jacob spanish version say "Adios, my friends?"

There are plenty of things wrong with the BoM, but having a French word in it is not one of them. There are several hundred other English words of French origin in the book as well, not to mention lots of words of Anglo-saxon origin. Jacob couldn't have known any of those words either.

All "adieu" in the English version of the BoM means is that JS knew the word and thought it fit at that point in the narrative. It determines nothing whatsoever about whether the book is a translation or fiction. It would be perfectly acceptable to use the word either way.

Ben- I feel sad for you because I've been in your shoes. Remember this site after your mission and you experienced life. Your'e going to need it after you discover all the LIES. Don't you realize your church is LYING to you? Please at least try and see a diffrent view. Everything you mentioned has been proven false.

Oh to be as smart as I thought I was when I was 19.

Memo to Benjamin.....You are of course, entitled to your opinion. My point of view was arrived at as follows:
I was born and raised in the church by two wonderful, loving, incredible parents. My folks taught me by word and by example to be kind, honest (in my dealings, both business and in my social interactions) and hard working. I went to church faithfully until I was in college at Ricks (BYUI). Never once time in all those years did I feel any hint of a "spirit" presence in my life nor was I EVER motivated to read the B of M or any other Mormon "scripture". I have attempted on several occasions, to read the B of M but just found it incredibly boring.
I married a wonderful Catholic girl and raised two great kids with her. They also were taught to be caring, honest & loving individuals. They are also both spiritual people and have made their own peace with "God". They both contribute positively to society so I think my job as a parent has been a success. I just don't believe the foundation of the LDS Church is to be believed. Nothing that I know in my heart to be true tells me that it is.
I just hope that in time, as the truth about the origins of the LDS Church are proven to be fraudulent, that you and the millions of other true believers will find peace.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2012 01:58PM by Lethbridge Reprobate.

Benjamin needs to get laid.

Hahahahaha +1

This child is repeating back what he's been taught all of his life. He only knows what he's been taught. He's only been around people who believes as he does. Those people are the ones who taught him. He's the perfect example of a Mormon boy.

If he's lucky, he will find out he doesn't know what he thinks he does. Then he will be here trying to find out how to unlearn everything he now 'knows' to be the truth.

It's very sad that he's spent his entire life being manipulated and controlled by the mormon church. What a waste of young life.

Mia, I am going to save that for when I write my memoir. You have articulated my life at 19 to a 't'.

Especially the part,'He's only been around people who believes as he does'.

"This website needs shut down...do you want to be judged by the Lord for putting down your fellow man?"

Hmmmm.

Sorry Ben, but you can't judge others and then hold them accountable for judging you in return. The world just doesn't work that way.

He thinks the end will come in his lifetime?
Wish I had a nickle for everytime I heard that while growing up.

Most of the people who spouted such belief from the pulpit are dead now.
Delusional cultists.

Interesting. The more I read the bom, the less I believed. Once I started re-reading it after a mission and as an adult, the stories started to seem contrived. I asked for advice and was told...well read the bom more! Finally, reading it again (which became the last time) even more things struck me as implausible. I asked advice again and was told: "okay, well then don't read it if it is ruining your testimony."

A few months after that, DNA made the news and it was game over for this mormon and family of 7. The book *might* have some inspiring stories--we even tried to stay, but after believing wholeheartedly in the divine nature of the church, man-made inspiration just wasn't good enough.

Dear Ben,

I've read teh Book of Mormon, and there is no mormonism to be found in it.

Joseph (or whoever) wrote the book first, and then had developed the doctrines later.

PS: I look forward to seeing you post here at RfM in a few years.

"This website needs shut down."

And while we're at it; cut out your tongues so you can't speak this evil, cover your women with burkas so they can't tempt righteous men, shut down the internet so temptation, evil and pornography can no longer take root in the hearts of good, god-fearing MORmONs.

Yup, free agency and how to enforce it.

Kid, you got one part of your dogma down pat; you follow'ed satan's premortal plan to a "T".

Now, quickly; off to the Bishop's office to confess to spanking the monkey last night. Can't let you be robbed of the spirit, now, can we??

Since the young person seems to be obsessed with having people read the Book of Mormon as the source of truth, I would ask that they explain why the following current major doctrines that define the Mormon church today are not found in the Book of Mormon. These doctrines all appeared within just a few short years after the publication of the Book of Mormon as "the most correct book on earth," and containing the "fulness of the gospel," so, why did God forget to include them as the actual fulness of the gospel message? Why did the people in the Book of Mormon not not have to believe or practice these doctrines as do Mormons today?

It is apparent that the structure and doctrines of the Mormon church today are not based on the Book of Mormon but on the pronouncements of the prophets, primarily Joseph Smith. If I wish to know the doctrines of the church, then I should be reading the pronouncements and teachings of the prophets from Joseph Smith onward, not the Book of Mormon, and asking God to confirm the truthfulness of their statements. Is that so difficult for a 19 year old to understand and admit?

God the Father is a "personage of tabernacle," a person with a body of flesh and bones.

The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are separate gods, "one in purpose" only but not one in being.

God the Father was once a man, on another planet, and progressed to godhood by following perfectly the commands and precepts of his Father God.

God is married and has a wife, or numerous wives, in heaven.

God and his heavenly wife (wives) procreated the spirits of every human being that has lived, is now living or will ever live on this earth. Those spirits have lived with their father on his planet in the "pre-existence" before being sent to earth to inhabit human bodies.

God the Father, Jesus Christ, Joseph Smith and other sons of the Father did not create the universe and earth out of nothing, but "organized" them from eternally existing matter that pre-existed God the Father.

Jesus Christ is the brother of every human being, and is also the brother of Lucifer (Satan) and the angels.

Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost.

The mother of Jesus Christ on earth was Mary, his own spirit sister.

Jesus Christ was fathered by means of a sexual union between God the Father and his own spirit daughter Mary - an incestuous relationship.

God the Father and his daughter Mary were husband and wife.

Jesus Christ made atonement for sins in the Garden of Gethsemane, not on the cross.

The Most faithful and worthy Mormons can progress to godhood in the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom, where they can obtain their own planet and with their wife (wives) procreate spirit children for eternity.

The "new and everlasting covenant" of polygamy is necessary for exaltation to godhood.

Mormons who are unmarried in this life and do not marry in the next life, cannot be exalted, but will become servant ministering angels to exalted Mormons in the next life.

There are three levels in heaven:
1. Telestial - lowest level
2. Terrestrial - middle level
3. Celestial - highest level, of which there are also three levels

Baptisms for the dead must be performed by proxy in this life for those who did not accept the gospel in this life, so that their sins can be forgiven and they can enter the Celestial Kingdom after they accept the Mormon gospel message in the next life.

Every human being will find a place in one of the three levels of heaven, except for the Devil and his angels and a few Mormons who have held the priesthood and become apostate.

The Priesthood is necessary in order for men to receive authority to act in the name of God and perform the various duties necessary to carry out the ordinances of the gospel.

Temples and temple ordinances pertaining to endowments are necessary in order to pass through the veil and enter the presence of God the Father, and consist of Temple Marriage, new names, secret key words and handshakes that will be used as an identification of the person in the next life.

Stick of Joseph, stick of Judah ... What are the sticks called for D&C, BofA, etc?

There is no antecedent in the Bible for the D&C and B of A. so those books must be accepted as scripture based only on the word of the prophet(s), just like the current main doctrines of the church.

Even the claim that that Stick of Judah and Stick of Joseph mentioned in Ezekiel 37:15-17 refers to the joining of the Bible and the Book of Mormon is ludicrous at best, and is laughed at by any legitimate Jewish scholar or Orthodox Christian. The joining of the sticks refers to the reuniting of the kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Whether a person believes the Bible or not, any person reading the passage would see that a claim to a uniting of the Book of Mormon and the Bible is not even a possible explanation.

Another passage that Mormons claim refers to the coming forth of the Book of Mormon out of the ground is Isaiah. 29:1-4, and again it is ludicrous to even consider that claim as being serious. The passage refers to the destruction of Jerusalem and not the reemergence of the Book of Mormon from the Hill Cummorah.

In addition to this, the Book of Mormon does not offer any additional "gospel" than what is already in the Bible. It is a benign book.

"And when the end comes, which i believe is in my lifetime, do you want to be judged by the Lord for putting down your fellow man?"

The pot did NOT just call the kettle black. (sarcasm) Okay, seriously, this kid is in for a wake up call. How many people have uttered those words about "the end" and then died thinking the end would be in their lifetime?

Weakest argument for the BoM:

"There are words in the book that haven't been used in centuries. there is no way that the book of Mormon was made up."

Seriously, though, I hope he keeps reading this website. If he's here, he probably came with the intent of saving our souls and getting truckloads of brownie points with god, but that doesn't mean he can't actually learn something.

"Mormons don't think they are better than anyone else."

Seriously?

Spend a few years in Utah County from an outsiders, non-Mormon p.o.v. where you get judged, slandered, and shunned by the locals because you're not Mormon.

"Putting down fellow man."

Not really. I'm putting down the BEHAVIOR of fellow man that use their title as a Mormon as an excuse for their behavior. I'm not judging them as living things. Just their bad, narcissistic manners.

"So read the book, and when you find yourself thinking that it isn't true and it's just a bunch of made up stories and good teachings, then you have fallen to temptation. When you realize that the devil himself keeps you from reading the book, you will open your eyes."

This part irritates me so much I just want to club a baby seal--offensive sarcasm intended, because it's just as offensive to me to have someone say I'm going to hell for thinking for myself and making my own decisions that have nothing to do with any "morality" issues.

I'm trying to respect your opinion, Ben, and respect where you're coming from, but to accuse someone of being satan's lapdog because they don't believe in certain things sounds like something I'd hear in a junior high cafeteria.

Go see the world for a while with an OPEN mind, because where you're coming from now, you are in for an epic surprise.

Bah, this kid just needs to get laid, then he'll rethink his whole "holy spirit" mumbo jumbo.

Dear Benjamin,

Study harder in school, not Sunday school.

Sincerely

exmorphmon

"Be bold, be brave, don't be afraid to testify, even if you don't know for sure, even if you haven't read every word. You still can know of its truthfulness. As you testify, your testimony will strengthen."

Beware. Brainwashing at work.