I have read sections of Alma and sections D&C with a contrite heart and broken spirit with the belief that they were inspired translation from Joseph Smith and divine revelation just to learn that it was VERBATIM COPIED TEXT from the book Heaven and Hell by Emanuel Swedenborg , who’s biography and doctrinal beliefs sound eerily familiar.

Is that kind of reading what you are referring to?

laytonguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have read sections of Alma and sections D&C
> with a contrite heart and broken spirit with the
> belief that they were inspired translation from
> Joseph Smith and divine revelation just to learn
> that it was VERBATIM COPIED TEXT from the book
> Heaven and Hell by Emanuel Swedenborg , who’s
> biography and doctrinal beliefs sound eerily
> familiar.
>
> Is that kind of reading what you are referring to?


So give me the reference or the amazon link so I can read "Heaven & Hell".

Its painfully obvious you cannot think for yourself, eekel. I can forgive that. But asking for a link when you've been given the title of a book and the author's name is a bit on the goofy side.

That you don't know who Swedenborg is clearly demonstrates that you haven't done nearly enough research to take on anyone who frequents this establishment.

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2012 03:13PM by Timothy.

>> I'll bet if you took a poll of all the people that participate here you would find that to be false. They may have looked at a website or two and thumbed through a book once, but similar to the general public in any given sunday's elders quorum meeting the majority of people on both sides don't look hard enough to find the actual facts.
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,523335,523400#msg-523400

...then reveals that he himself has absolutely no idea what the true sources of Mormonism are...

Starting from here,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Swedenborg

you can go to any of the references listed for more information.

On a side note - HOLY CRAP, the description of this guy and his beliefs about the Second Coming is exactly like the Jehovah's Witnesses, but 200 years earlier! Thanks for the info!

I actually did look at the book, but for a quick reference about the similarities between Swedenborg and Mormonism, this link is interesting:

http://craigwmiller.tripod.com/interest.htm

Its avaliable on Amazon......

http://www.amazon.com/Heaven-Hell-NW-CENTURY-EDITION/dp/0877854769

amazing what you can find if you're not too lazy to look.

It doesn't exist. It can't. The only history we have comes from either faithful LDS or their critics and even primary sources come with the bias of the day.

The Church could't give it to you straight even if it wanted to. Critics have their bias, so do apologists and faithful historians. In the end though your decisions about what to believe and live by affect you. Bias be damned you have to figure out what YOU believe and think....unless that is you prefer to have someone tell you what to think.

Your job, should you choose to accept it, is to 1) read all sides of the issue(s) from all sources and then (2 to the best your ability decide what seems most credible to you. If you do that and you decide the Church is all it claims and the best thing ever.....great. I wish you the best. If you decide otherwise....great. Either way you win—you determine course of your own life.

What I wouldn't do however is let the concern of unbiased history keep you from at least attempting to find truth cuz it can't be helped. And I would take anyone else's word for any of this w/o some serious research. Happy reading.

laytonguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have read sections of Alma and sections D&C
> with a contrite heart and broken spirit with the
> belief that they were inspired translation from
> Joseph Smith and divine revelation just to learn
> that it was VERBATIM COPIED TEXT from the book
> Heaven and Hell by Emanuel Swedenborg , who’s
> biography and doctrinal beliefs sound eerily
> familiar.
>
> Is that kind of reading what you are referring to?

I ask for the link because you learned JS quoted Swedenborg from Quinn-------have you read or do you know where I can get a copy of the actual "Heaven and Hell" to determine for myself?

Otherwise one might assume you don't care to educate yourself.

eekel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> laytonguy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have read sections of Alma and sections D&C
> > with a contrite heart and broken spirit with
> the
> > belief that they were inspired translation
> from
> > Joseph Smith and divine revelation just to
> learn
> > that it was VERBATIM COPIED TEXT from the book
> > Heaven and Hell by Emanuel Swedenborg , who’s
>
> > biography and doctrinal beliefs sound eerily
> > familiar.
> >
> > Is that kind of reading what you are referring
> to?
>
> I ask for the link because you learned JS quoted
> Swedenborg from Quinn-------have you read or do
> you know where I can get a copy of the actual
> "Heaven and Hell" to determine for myself?


Meaning you don't know because you've never read the actual book Quinn is referencing? Do you see that as a problem or because Quinn's opinion fits your own you can take his word for it?

Google the book yourself.. I was able to download it in PDF format.

Did I get some of my information from Quinn. Of course!! However, when you have both documents in front of you and you do a text search and find it in both, I would pretty much say that it is copied text.

Let me ask this....Do you source check talks by General Authorities or LDS Church manuals? Have you checked out the source for the oft-quoted Thomas Marsh apostasy/milk strippings story that the Brethren love to tell? Or the myth of transfiguration of Brigham Young in Nauvoo? Do you question friendly sources to the level you are suggesting for those here?

Did you run down all the primary sources from RSR? You realize of course that Bushman himself references Brodie and Compton's "In Sacred Loneliness?"

Seriously you don't really suspect that you are any less susceptible to bias than anyone else here, do you?

So how about we put a pin in the whole "bias" idea and talk about some LDS history and doctrine?

Funny thing is for me I based my conclusion on studying the Book of Mormon, D&C & Bible. They were sufficient to prove Mormonism false in and of themselves.

You can even pray about it. There are many on this board who have.

Fasted, prayed, studied,studied it out in our minds and came to a conclusion. Prayed to God telling him the conclusion we'd arrived at, and then asked him in humble pleading prayer if our decision was right.

Most Mormons have no idea that many exmormons go through that process. I did myself. It all became exceedingly clear in my mind that NO church is true.