Eekel, you represent so much about what a Mormon is, I can't believe you still haven't been booted.

You want unbiased opinions to prove the Church false or true. It's not going to happen. You seem to think that having 100% of the information that happened in the Church from the birth of Joseph Smith forward will help you or help us make a more informed decision.

Let's say you have a boyfriend (I'll just call you a woman, or a gay man, because you got all phychoanalytic when someone assumed you were a man). How many secrets, lies, mis-construing of facts and general weird details would it take to make you realize, "Wow, this guy isn't for me"? How many subtle abusive behaviors would he have to display before you caught on that he was a jerk?

You don't need any more evidence of anything. It's right before you. You have all the facts you need, even without reading any more information.

Now pretend the Church is an investor, who says if you give him your life savings, he'll make you rich beyond belief. You ask for his record, and he gives you an investment record with names and contents of entire portfolios blacked out. But the things you can see sound great. So you ask him why parts are blocked out and he says, "Oh, that's just not useful information."

So you ask for references from current clients. Glowing. Good sign, right? Hmmm...

So, you go online to a consumer reporting site and you find a large number of his former clients lost everything and he just strung them along and lied and mis-appropriated their funds. You even find he was arrested for this in other jurisdictions. Wow. Red flag.

So you ask him about it and he tells you: Oh, these people just have an agenda. I don't know why they would lie and persecute me like that. But you know I'm honest because the word "Honest" is in the name of my business. It would be good for both of us if you just stopped reading the consumer reports.

Red flag?

So, you give him your life savings and ask for a list of investments he purchased with your savings. He says, "Oh, trust me, it's in a safe place. We bought some XYZ stock and some ABC bonds. I'll take care of the particulars."

Red flag?

You go online and look up XYZ stock and ABC bonds, and you find that ABC bonds are junk rated and now worthless, and XYZ stock doesn't even exist on any exchange you can find.

Red flag?

Do I really need to drag this out?

You have all the evidence you need right here, right now. If you believe in God (I believe in God) you must have some belief in your God-given ability to weigh evidence and make a decision.

So, do it. Weigh the evidence you can observe right now. Not people's opinions of the evidence. Just the evidence. The stuff in your head you know is in there (or you wouldn't even have come here). And then decide.

Then, we'll see you back here in a few weeks as a bona-fide RfMer needing some support...or we'll never hear from you again. Either way, you will have decided (you originally said you came here because you were questioning...).

I'm going to go pray that eekel goes back from whence it came. Do you think my prayers will be answered?

LOVE IT.

Brilliantly said!

If the Troll is female then I'm the Queen of Sheba.

Just saying.

There are debates on this forum from time to time, but is this really a place for debates between mormons and exmormons? This is a board for recovery from that cult, not for setting up sparring matches.

No doubt. I figured I'd just talk to him for as long as he was allowed to be here. (-:

My advice? Read No Man Knows My History from cover to cover, including the footnotes.

Remember, the author had access to the LDS history vaults, before they were sealed.