God doesn't exist but if he does he is an a$$hole. Satan is a bogey man to help keep people scared. the bible is an ancient text that illustrates what the elite priests of Jerusalem believed. the bom is a 19th century piece of pseudo religious fiction that shows 19th c beliefs. I dont need a savior. I don't believe he is real. spirituality is a personal thing and I believe it is our link to others and the universe. bit doesn't mean anything paranormal is there. religion is man made and is for co tolling people.

It's all bullshit and it's bad for you.

Christianity is a pagan religion. Other than sacrificing virgins, there is no difference between modern Christianity and their beliefs and need for a savior, and ancient pagans. The rest of it is just fluff added.

by sacrificing a virgin whose mother was also a virgin!

And they made that fly.


Anagrammy

I believe in spirituality without exploitation. I don't believe in barbaric notions like bloodspilling expiates guilt for wrongdoing. Whether it's cloaked as animal sacrifices, a test of obedience, or torture to atone for the sins of all mankind--to me it is all institutionalized violence. And it is the opposite of real spirituality.

Which is personal. I respect the choices of others even though I disagree. The joy and peace I experience living the principals of Buddhism make it unnecessary for me to join anything but the human community.

When you feel peace inside, experience joy in living and take pleasure in expressing compassion within the human community, that to me is spiritual living.

It's not institutional. And I happen to think that's what Jesus was talking about, but I could be wrong.

I would have never said those last five words when I was Catholic or Mormon. They are words that lead to world peace and unfortunately, they are seldom found in religions.

Thanks for asking- very interesting thread, SuzieQ#1


Anagrammy

All of is made up -- NONE of it is real. People do bad things because they do bad things -- no one is forcing them. If there is any intelligence underlying the fabric of the Universe it is something unprovable and profoundly unknown. Joseph Smith started the whole "Gold Bible" (later the "Book of Mormon") thing as a prank and Sidney Ridgdon showed Smith how he could make real money out of religion instead of looking for buried treasure. No human being has ever demonstrated that they possess divine or supernatural powers. People need things to believe in and in this respect religious faith does no harm. It is when religion is used as a weapon or as a justification for hate, bigotry or intolerance it becomes an instrument of evil.

God isn't a necessary component of human existence. The last 10,000 years of mild geographic conditions, combined with the remarkably adaptive and ingenious nature of the human brain have allowed us to not only survive as a species but to thrive. (Keep in mind, though, that human beings are still a relatively young species; we've been around less than a quarter-million years. Compared to crocodiles and mosquitoes we haven't even been around for a blink of a metaphorical eye.)

Satan isn't necessary, either. All my ideas are mine, whether they be instructive, destructive or trite. I am not a marionette whose strings get yanked and pulled by quarrelling puppeteers.

The Bible is a sloppy conglomeration of middle eastern myths and proverbs combined with gross historical exaggerations intended to portray the Israelites (and then Christians in their turn) as something greater than they are.

The Book of Mormon, similar to the Bible, is a mishmash of 19th century folklore and mysticism combined with revivalist rhetoric. It is only interesting in that it is a reflection of the place and period in which it was written.

I believe in the historicity of the religious radical we know as Jesus, and I admire this man. I've never seen the need for a spiritual savior, even in my prior true-believing life. As a Standard for mankind - a Christian Übermensch, if you will - I see some value in the concept of Jesus.

Spirituality is a natural phenomenon. It's a cluster of several emotions: awe, reverence, love, fear, et cetera. It has no basis in the Divine, even though it is often mistaken for such.

I'm generally against institutionalized religion or any other organization that tries to do the thinking for the masses.

They are effective tools used to control people with fear.

I don't know anymore . . . and that's totally OK with me.

;o)

I guess that's where I have had a hard time in discussing Mormonism with my bf.

I believe in God, because of my own experience. I felt God in my heart in a very critical moment of my life and it really did change me. Then I read the bible and most of the things Christ was written to have said gelled with a lot of what I felt. But it's always based in my heart. It's what sustains me.

But all of that authority stuff, and the prophets, and what is true or not true, is really irrelevant to me in terms of God. There is no way a prophet could know more about me or my relationship to God than I do. Or a priest. Or anybody.

My last boyfriend was an Orthodox Jew. Seriously! That is a whole other story. I guess since I came to believe in God I have been really intrigued by religion and keep trying to enter into and understand and tease out other's relationships with God. My dear friend tells me I'm a religious anthropologist, but I only do it on my own and out of curiousity.

I've dated a Muslim, kissed a Bahai, made love to an atheist. Really they all are the same. And everyone is just trying to get things to make sense.

But for my own part, I prefer Conversations with God type of stuff, meditating, finding that still peace within. Everyone has that. And that's how I end up agreeing with my atheist friends. It's just peace in your heart, that you find and share with others.

I still enjoy arguing about it though!

I am also bummed because we had been invited to dinner at the Bishop's house a few weeks ago, and I was really excited to get to explore another meal with another religious person, but the bf told the bishop we couldn't go. He said he was worried after I went off on him that I wouldn't be able to handle it. I know I could have handled it with grace and aplomb. They might not have been able to though.

Anyway, in the end, to me religion and God are totally separate.

I dont believe in God of the bible. Being a Mother changed my view. I'm not prepared to say I'm athiest. If there is a God I see him being more like an actual parent. I will love my children no matter what they call me ( God, Buddah or booger) I will love them gay, straight, black, white.....and yes even if they are republican. God must be that way. I also dont believe him to be as involved in our daily lives as christians do. I dont think he chooses who lives or dies, or puts us in difficult situations to teach us lessons. He lets us go and hopes for the best. I also consider the scripture to be more like esops fables. But then again I may be an athiest tomorrow.

Don't like being told what to do; or forced to do something via religious blackmail. But I have to admit, kids from religious families are much nicer than their non-religious counterparts. Which poses the question, "Do we need religion to supplement the law?" Without religion would we become rude and nasty like communists? Would we turn to worshipping the E-channel and lifestyles enjoyed by movie stars and entertainers? To be honest, sometimes it feels like we're already doing that.

Maybe we really need God and religion?

Perhaps you have not read the thread here on the Boy Scouts.

I raised one set of kids in the Mormon Church and one set out of it. The ones raised in the Church got in trouble with the law and were much more rebellious.

The second set were taught the good values without the constant hammering of the Brethren this and the Brethren that and the OBEY OBEY OBEY with the awful threats. They did some bad stuff here and there, but I could see that they were internalizing what it means to be a good person and a productive member of society.

I think that religious kids have more trouble with that because their need to individuate makes them throw the baby out with the bathwater.

OH--and the most promiscuous kids in high school were the kids from the repressive religions. I remember being 16 and wondering why they were so wild.


Anagrammy

Just don't ask me to mimic the sodomization while wearing a nightgown and an apron....


Anagrammy

"... But I have to admit, kids from religious families are much nicer than their non-religious counterparts..."


Funny, but my experience is quite the opposite. I worked in a thoroughly secular school for 4 years before teaching in a Christian school where a majority of the students are missionary kids. The missionary kids are no more or no less "nasty" or "impolite" or whiny as the secular kids. However, because of previously held assumptions that a Christian school would produce, er, more Christian-like behavior I'm still aghast at some of their antics: coming to school drunk (and going on a field trip drunk), stealing a wine bottle from a 7-11 (and getting caught by police), snogging and feel ups in bathrooms (and getting caught and suspended for a few days), setting off a home-made bomb in school premises (and getting fingered, investigated, then suspended). And then there's the usual teen "f"-word filled language, I don't know why I'm surprised that kids would still behave like kids even in a Christian environment.

The bomb thing never happened in the secular school.

"The whole idea of compassion is based on a keen awareness of the interdependence of all these living beings, which are all part of one another, and all involved in one another."

--Thomas Merton--


Or, a little more old-fashionedly:

"No man is an island entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were. Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind. And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls: it tolls for thee."

--John Donne--
--Meditation 17--
--Devotions Upon Emergent Occasions--


I believe this and more besides. For example, I believe in Pergolesi's Stabat Mater, deeply.

Human

I know I've seen no credible evidence that a loving, caring, committed and parental God exists. I can't pretend it isn't remotely possible that some being orchestrated life as we know it but it seems rather pointless to care since if that being exists it clearly doesn't impact our lives. Overall, I believe it is highly unlikely that any deity exists.

I believe Satan is less likely than God.

I believe the Bible is only fractionally more credible than the Book of Mormon. The Bible deals with people who really existed (racially, not necessarily individually) although those people are exaggerated beyond belief in numbers and accomplishments. Oh, and I still cling to what I feel is the greatest message of all in the Bible which boils down to "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." -- I find that very appropriate.

I believe the Book of Mormon is boring, juvenile and depicts a remarkably cruel deity. I also believe it is a work of complete fiction.

I believe I have no need or desire for a "savior". I will accept responsibility for my own life and deal with the consequences, thank you very much.

I believe spirituality is an essential component of being a human being. It must be explored and expressed for us to truly thrive. However it is mostly an aspect of our capacity for abstract thought. I'm sure there is far more going on in our universe than we can fully understand and explain and I believe that is part of spirituality too.

I believe religion is a tool for human beings. Like all tools it can be used for good, neutral and evil purposes. I don't think it is horrible in and of itself but I am all too aware that many humans have used religion in horrible ways or to justify simply ignoring the pain and anguish of others. (Kind of gets back to that do-unto-others thing I mentioned. I'd rather people were kind, helpful and supportive of me so I try to be the same way to them.)

Thank you for asking.

I don't actually have any 'beliefs' because we don't really have any answers. We only have ideas of how we got here and what we're doing here. People all over the world have different thoughts on what the answers are, but the truth is that no one really knows. They may have theories or faith/beliefs, but no one knows anything for sure.

God: I hope there's some sort of Intelligence out there which thought us all up, but mostly I doubt it. As I left the Church I realized that I never really had a belief. I only ever had hope. Still do. But I'm not as hopeful as I once was.

Satan: Don't believe in him at all. I've studied the history of the being that we call Satan today and I've realized he's just a myth. There are all sorts of different evil beings in every philosophy, past and present, of different names and descriptions.

Bible: I don't take anything in the Bible literally. I see it as a compilation of moral stories and guides for the societies of the time to live by. Today we have a code of laws and a police force to do that. You simply can't trample on the rights of others to live in peace and safety.

Years ago I saw a great series on TV done by historian John Romer, called Testament. The series was about the creation of our modern-day Bible. It was really fascinating, and it's quite clear that we owe our modern-day Bible to the Catholic Church as they compiled it, throwing out the books they didn't feel fit, and keeping the books which agreed with their philosophy.

What if Constantine had decided that the official church of Rome should be the Cult of Isis? Most of us could have been raised as Isisians instead of Christians.

Book of Mormon. Debunked. Next ....

A Saviour: Because I don't take the Bible seriously, and I have finally gotten around to studying Evolution and have realized that it's real, I don't see any evidence for an Adam and Eve. Except for maybe Primordial Adam and Eve, but they somehow lived something like 10,000 years apart. I'm not sure how that works, but that's what I read. LOL

But if Evolution is real, then there was no Fall. If there was no Fall, then there is no need for a Saviour.

I've developed quite a strong dislike for organized religion. I now see it as harmful to society and to an individual's self-esteem. It creates an intolerant, judgmental society, imho. Although I'm certainly not about to tell people that they can't be religious. They can be whatever they darn well want to be, as long as they respect my rights to be whatever I want to be.

I'm not sure if I'm a spiritual person anymore or not. The farther away from the Church that I get, the less spiritual I've become. I'd certainly rather be spiritual than religious. I'm realizing that there's a huge difference between the two.

I'm still on the journey of discovery though and my ideas practically change daily. Ask me again next year. LOL ;o)

The only thing I am sure of is that I believe in being true to myself. That way, wherever I do end up, if anywhere, at least I'll get there honestly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2010 01:43PM by Greyfort.

And it was a really hard time in my life. And I would appreciate it if you would all praise me and give menyour money for the rest of eternity for the privilege of hanging out with me after you die.

You don't have to. I'm not forcing any of you, but if you don't I have a place for you to be sodomised by demons in a lake of fire. So, you know; the choice is yours.

Many of you hit on some of my opinions also.

OK, I'll bite. For Spiritists, such as myself, the answers would be:

God: The origin of all things, but we are still far from being capable of understanding it. Definitely not anthropomorphic, of course. Not worth speculating much about it, when there are so many things we need to understand first.

Satan: Simply does not exist... it doesn't make sense. A fantasy created by men, mirroring their own evil tendencies.

Bible: a collection of ancient religious writings, written, compiled and modified by common men, some more inspired than others. Not the "word of God" in any way. But the teachings of Jesus are a most excellent guide on moral and ethics.

BOM: just an exotic, made-up book...the product of a deranged mind.

Savior: there is no such thing. We have endless opportunities to learn and make up for our mistakes, through reincarnation. The responsibility for our actions is exclusively ours. No one can "save" us from anything.

Spirituality: it's one of the fundamental pillars for happiness in life. Once the Spiritist realizes we are immortal, and that there is no savior or miraculous forgiveness for "sins", every little act in life becomes a spiritual act, because it's always weighed against the Golden Rule. Living with kindness and compassion then becomes (or should become) the main goal. The knowledge that death is just the deactivation of a biological machine that housed the spirit for a while, and that life continues without interruption, gives great peace, and the fear of death vanishes.

Religion: rituals, dogmas, ecclesiastical hierarchy, fancy temples of worship, special clothing, are all unnecessary. One can be very spiritual, without following a particular religion, or at least without rituals, baptisms, and so on. No religion owns God or the truth about our spiritual origins.

This sums it up, I guess. I feel pretty happy not having to answer to any religious "authorities", but only to my own conscience. In all my searching for spiritual knowledge, Kardec is the one who came up with the most sensible and logical answers IMHO, so that's why I define myself as a spiritist. It works for me, so far.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2010 11:18PM by Jobim.