Recovery Board
: RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
Here's his response to the "What if I could incontrovertibly prove that the Book of Mormon isn't true" question:
"I've heard it all. There is nothing you could possibly tell me that would shake my faith. The more I hear that which is against the faith, the more it strengthens my testimony. For I can see how blinded they truly are. Now you may think otherwise, but I know. I have received a personal witness from my Heavenly Father through the Holy Ghost. I have a personal relationship with my Heavenly Father and I know him. There is nothing you can say to me that could possibly destroy that. "
Should I do the same as before?
"I've heard it all. There is nothing you could possibly tell me that would shake my faith. The more I hear that which is against the faith, the more it strengthens my testimony. For I can see how blinded they truly are. Now you may think otherwise, but I know. I have received a personal witness from my Heavenly Father through the Holy Ghost. I have a personal relationship with my Heavenly Father and I know him. There is nothing you can say to me that could possibly destroy that. "
Should I do the same as before?
I bet the worst thing you could do to his testimony is not care. "Alright, well good luck with that."
I'm not, but I figured I'd see what the people here thought.
Father tell you happened to the Lamanite DNA? Please educate me. What did Heavenly Father tell you happened to all those millions of Nephite and Jaredite skeletons and weapons? What did Heavenly Father tell you happened to all those cities? I am anxious to know."
Okay, maybe I'm a smarta**.
Okay, maybe I'm a smarta**.
Your question is legit.
What an opportunity to clear up all these little mysteries and misunderstandings. And I am so sure that H.F. would be glad to help clear things up so people can stop being convinced that the One True Faith is baloney!
What an opportunity to clear up all these little mysteries and misunderstandings. And I am so sure that H.F. would be glad to help clear things up so people can stop being convinced that the One True Faith is baloney!
I don't recall the title or author right off, but the book was on being certain. According to what I read from the book, certainty is a feeling just as anger or frustration are feelings. We can feel as certain about something that is false as we can about something that is true. We can also lack a feeling of certainty about something that is completely true.
One experiment about the subject was conducted around the events of 9/11. The researchers felt certain that memory of their test subjects would be better surrounding such an important event. Within months after the attacks in NYC, researchers had test subjects write about personal feelings and events - where they were what they were doing, etc - when the tragedy of 9/11 occurred. Two years later, they asked the same group of subjects to again write about their personal feelings and events around that same time. Some of the second responses were close to the origianl responses, but some were very different with very few coorelations. Of those who responded very differently, they questioned them how certain they were about what they wrote the second time. Most of them responded that they were very certain of what they remembered. When confronted with the discrepancies between their original responses and their very different second responses two years later, a few of these subjects question if their original responses had not been mixed up with someone else's early response, because they felt very certain that they did not write the original response attributed to them.
Regarding the subject of the OP, this fellow is just following the script provided by TSCC to maintain his testimony. He is told that the greater the opposition to the (claimed) truthfulness of the LDS church, the more the church is true. Greater opposition therefore increases the TSCC's truthfulness. Of course, so does agreement woth the church or else 13 million members could be wrong. This fellow also doesn't seem to understand that his opposition to all other religions or ideas - as in "For I can see how blinded they truly are" - does not make any of them any more true than he decides they are (or aren't). 13 million Mormons who oppose belief in the Catholic church (or the Baptists, or Methodists, or Muslims) doesn't make it any more true for Mormons (or anyone else for that matter).
This fellow's testimony also allows him to feel he is somehow special because of the "personal witness from my Heavenly Father through the Holy Ghost" he claims to have received. Many of us here know about this special testimony and how we have been deceived by our feelings. We also know that a certain number of us were told to "fake it 'til we make it" or in other words to lie that we had a strong testimony until we began to feel like maybe we did. It was an exercise in cultivating a feeling of certainty where none existed perviously. An exercise in generating a particular feeling of being certain about something that we were not certain about. The feeling was reinforced through regular meetings and activities drawing up a dependency that cause a fear of losing this feeling of certainty - or a fear of admitting that we do not feel certain that the TSCC possessed any truthfulness at all.
One experiment about the subject was conducted around the events of 9/11. The researchers felt certain that memory of their test subjects would be better surrounding such an important event. Within months after the attacks in NYC, researchers had test subjects write about personal feelings and events - where they were what they were doing, etc - when the tragedy of 9/11 occurred. Two years later, they asked the same group of subjects to again write about their personal feelings and events around that same time. Some of the second responses were close to the origianl responses, but some were very different with very few coorelations. Of those who responded very differently, they questioned them how certain they were about what they wrote the second time. Most of them responded that they were very certain of what they remembered. When confronted with the discrepancies between their original responses and their very different second responses two years later, a few of these subjects question if their original responses had not been mixed up with someone else's early response, because they felt very certain that they did not write the original response attributed to them.
Regarding the subject of the OP, this fellow is just following the script provided by TSCC to maintain his testimony. He is told that the greater the opposition to the (claimed) truthfulness of the LDS church, the more the church is true. Greater opposition therefore increases the TSCC's truthfulness. Of course, so does agreement woth the church or else 13 million members could be wrong. This fellow also doesn't seem to understand that his opposition to all other religions or ideas - as in "For I can see how blinded they truly are" - does not make any of them any more true than he decides they are (or aren't). 13 million Mormons who oppose belief in the Catholic church (or the Baptists, or Methodists, or Muslims) doesn't make it any more true for Mormons (or anyone else for that matter).
This fellow's testimony also allows him to feel he is somehow special because of the "personal witness from my Heavenly Father through the Holy Ghost" he claims to have received. Many of us here know about this special testimony and how we have been deceived by our feelings. We also know that a certain number of us were told to "fake it 'til we make it" or in other words to lie that we had a strong testimony until we began to feel like maybe we did. It was an exercise in cultivating a feeling of certainty where none existed perviously. An exercise in generating a particular feeling of being certain about something that we were not certain about. The feeling was reinforced through regular meetings and activities drawing up a dependency that cause a fear of losing this feeling of certainty - or a fear of admitting that we do not feel certain that the TSCC possessed any truthfulness at all.
They all have solid testimonies of the BoM and their particular brand of mormonism. They have left one group or another, been excommunicated from one group or another, felt led by God to form or align themselves with a new church.
And as his church teaches, a persons testimony of Joseph Smith and of the Book of Mormon is their most precious posession. Precious because it is a a gift from God through the witness of the Holy Ghost.
So why is his testimony any more valid than their testimonies?
And as his church teaches, a persons testimony of Joseph Smith and of the Book of Mormon is their most precious posession. Precious because it is a a gift from God through the witness of the Holy Ghost.
So why is his testimony any more valid than their testimonies?
"I've invested my whole life in this corporation and there's no way my stock is worthless. I've heard stories from other companies that this corporation is just a shell company with no real assets of its own, but I've listened to the CEO and the promised dividends in the future are beyond imagining. Well, no, I've only seen a couple of small dividends so far, but you just wait..."