Can anybody who feels that Gay marriage and the LGBT lifestyle in general are immoral, explain to me why they feel this way? Fast and pray about it if you must, hell, use a peepstone for all I care.

I'm sure the biggest reason is the two vague references in the Bible. But of course, they all pick and choose when taking advice on morality from a book that encourages genocide of non-believers, stoning to death of people for minor sins, sleeping with your own father to continue the family bloodline, etc.

I will try to make this short. I am not standing up for anyone just relaying my own growing experiances. I will state now that I could give a shit if gay people want to get married or have other benefits of partnership whatever more power to them. No onto growing up and moving past. I think some people are stuck thinking that being gay is a deviant behavior. I also think some think that if you are gay you are obviously promiscuous (spelling??) I think individuals are promiscuous. Is that bad???? Who the hell knows I am not here to waist my time trying to figure out what is moral for other people. I am not and have not been promiscous cause I don't want to...I will teach my kids not to be that way cause frankly it is dangerous. I think that is a good excuse for those that think it is immoral...because the assume you are also promiscuous????? I dont know...sounded good to me. And no I dont think that just because you are gay you are promiscuous. I really need to google that word so I can spell it right, if I am in spelling it wrong...sorry.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2012 06:38PM by 2litl2l8.

From the different exit stories I have read or listened to I have noticed that there are some ex-mormons who left the church because they realized church teachings were not in harmony with the bible. I am not sure how that works because the bible is not consistent with itself either. I would imagine these people would be likely to continue to view homosexuality as a sin because of what is written in the bible. I think people just pick and choose from the bible the things they like and don't. They don't feel comfortable with gay people so they go ahead and accept what the bible says about gays. They don't feel comfortable with genocide so they just ignore it. I don't really care about the bible's opinion on anything. It is written by men just as much of the Book of Mormon was. It was just written by men who lived 2000-2500 years ago instead of less than 200 years ago.

I don't like the words moral or immoral.... my gawds those terms have such different meanings for different times, people, countries.. etc.. ad nauseum
Using those words implies there is a right way or wrong way, according to someone who probably has very different values than me. It sets one apart.

beats the poo outta me
but goes so very far back in history
cavemen might of looked down on those with a tail remenant, or the other way around and said it was immoral. Superiority??

I gotta be more open, just for me :)

Thanks to all of you for expressing your ideas of the opinions of other.

Now, can we please get some homophobes to answer my question, Please?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2012 07:12PM by mindlight.

Ewww.... and thank you.

but this is the current politically correct bugbear:anyone who disagrees with anything in gay culture is automatically a "same-fearer" (really?) and is labeled as an ignorant cretin.

I'll offer a reason, and it doesn't differ substantially for people who pursue a non-reproductive hetero lifestyle. Neither orientation is innately "immoral," literally, because "moral" means abiding by a culture's mores or customs, and Divinity has no earthbound culture. On the other hand, the lifestyles presume the identity of consciousness with a body and bodily behavior. That is the "sin," the 'missing the mark' or erroneous foundation. The temporarily embodied quickly learn, from parents, society, and practically all contacts, to identify themselves with their embodiments, and to desire or fear other bodies...to exploit, kill, or crave other bodies in the strange hope that this will give some lasting satisfaction--a Being-level satisfaction, a healing of the split between oneself and others that bodily identity necessarily entail.

But this whole world is like a gym devoted to "body-building," and so anyone who says that it might all be based on a fundamental misunderstanding of what one really IS...well, how popular would that person be?

I stood back and looked at myself about five years ago and decided that the reason I had anything against gays was because of things other people had said and taught me. I re-analyzed my attitude using reason and compassion instead of heresay, religious bias and ancient books. Now I am a straight supporter of gay rights... and women's rights, as well.

I am not sure, but I think being willing to do this self-correction at a mature age is exceptional. I'm not bragging, and not saying that it doesn't need more work. I just decided to re-assess my entire belief system, and it's been liberating.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2012 07:25PM by rationalguy.

Homosexual behavior goes way back in history, churches didn't always care about it either. I think it gets such a bad rap in the US for two reasons: 1) it was once identified as a mental illness and thought to lead to all kinds of other deviant behavior--this has since been proven wrong. It was portrayed in media as bad and wrong. And the whole HIV scare in the 80s freaked people out, it was easy to blame the gays. 2) High religious influence; religions are running scared right now. 83% of the U.S. is religious, and religion has a disproportionate power over weddings/marriages, they are afraid to lose their source of income and their other privileges including tax exempt status. But rather than tell people the truth it's easier to bring up myths about homosexuality and continue the hatred. Using the Bible and telling people it is from God makes it more believable, what Christian would defy God?

Obviously I'm not a homophobe, but I was for a very long time. What changed my mind was finally seeing them as people, these are fellow human beings who have every right to live that I do. People who are more than their sexual orientation. People who care about and love their families. I used to believe the Proclamation on the Family was the only way a family should be, a mother and a father. But it is through taking family courses and learning about other types of families that I see how wrong that is. There is research to show that some gay parents are actually better parents than straight parents.

My .02, we need to get out of everyone's bedroom (heteros exhibit some of the same sexual behaviors as gays, btw, it's not all about vaginal sex) and figure out what's best for families overall. There are countries light years ahead of us in this regard. It's time folks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TBd-UCwVAY

I liked that video Jessica....thank you

Thanks, it is by and far one of the best videos I've ever seen!

Full disclosure: I'm straight. One of my sons is gay.

I see two arguments against gay, one religious, the other biological.

Religious: The U.S. Constitution states there shall be no state religion and no religious test for public office. I'm not an attorney, but it appears to me that the government has no business enforcing religious law, thus the religious argument is invalid and the government should not be trying to tell people who they can marry.

Biological: Homosexual behavior does not lead to reproduction. Big deal, most human sexual activity is recreational with both parties hoping it DOES NOT lead to reproduction. We seem to be in no immediate danger of running out of people, so biological argument is invalid.

Looks to me like the REAL reason for discrimination against gay people is bigotry, and I don't have time for that.

I dunno bro. If you're happy, I'm happy. That's all that matters. Anyone who wants to prohibit someone else from being happy is the "adversary." That's all this hillbilly Southern guy knows for sure.

Why people need society-wide norms and universal conformity, I'll never know. Probably to assuage their own fears of the "other." My mom's ancestors arrived in Jamestown in 1610 after a pretty legendary journey. There are stories of ALL sorts of debauchery that took place at the settling of this country. Think in a colony that was overwhelmingly male and isolated from the rest of the world in a self-contained fenced yard had any man-on-man action? Maybe just a bit?

America wasn't founded on "godly principles." It was founded on making it in life and people staying the f*ck out of others' business. I pray for all homosexuals' sake that it returns to that. Bless you all.

One thing's for sure, I'm going to be buying more Oreo cookies just to piss off those who hate those who were born gay. After all, I have a gay uncle who basically committed suicide because my grandparents would have completely shunned him if he dared to come out.

Let us first try and agree on what is morality, what is ethics, and what is attitude

In my view:

First - Attacking attitude is a personal attack on personality, automatic reflexes or responses on a situation. Better, lighter, to attack adaptation (which can be adjusted more easily). So a homosexual having the attitude but doesn't act upon it,etc.

Ethics, are (in my view) regulations, laws, rules, limitations and also obligations. It is formed by all of us to regulate our relations to other people. Some are common among a group, or an entire culture or society - the latter is formulated in formal laws and rules and interpreted by the justice system.

Morality - one cannot exist without showing one facet of all the morality values in comprehension (morality, which is a positive, and immorality, which is a negative, and amorality, which is lack of any signs of positive or negative). This is judged by oneself, and other people. And relations can alter both the way one judges people's morality and how sensitive the scale or input of that value is. For instance, for many xtians, Jesus is preset as perfect in almost all conceivable moral value - and all others fall short of that standard (are 'sinners').

And what is morality? It is scales, of the positive in one end and the negative in the other. For instance cowardice vs. bravery. (and if one cannot see any sign of either, one can judge that person as being amoral regarding the value/norm/scale).

As I regard it, the closer the relationship, the more it is BOTH about morality and ethics. So, probably then, sex is both, it may be difficult to keep those things apart, and it doesn't help much that xtians use the term both without fine
distinctions and as a means to move or hurt or frighten or provoce people they are using it against.

For most people it is taboo to have sex with someone of the same gender. We simply are not attracted to someone with the same 'equipment'. Social taboos are often punished by law or reason for bullying between people. So, in order to break the taboo, a long process often must take place, in which awareness and information is needed. In case of homosexuality, that process has been working (slowly) among the society at large. But, not so among many religions. They still cannot see that it is a normal and strong ethical principle among only most people not all, and want to be certain that it stays as strong as before the social liberal processes (for ALL sinners).

So, in order to condemn it as immoral, one should go into people's innermost nature (as given by 'God') and know with every inch of one's 'soul' that those people are 'sinning' (either voluntarily or by Satan) against the 'gift' of procreation that 'God' has given us all...

On the other hand, what about people that no longer have that kind of 'God', or no God at all, or are willing to acknowledge that noone is given the power to know every being's internal affairs or to judge about those personal affairs?

But still, it is more about the ethics of the majority vs, the minority, not so much about morality in and of itself (in my view), since it is claimed to be natural for those having those attractions (and why doubt that?).

I confess to always viewing homosexuality as "weird", "strange", etc. However, it really didn't affect me; I'm solidly heterosexual.

And then one of my cousins appeared at Christmas dinner with his roommate. A few months later they bought a house. Suddenly what had been "strange" was real and close.

I actually looked up the Bible references as I thought about what my cousin was doing. But in the end I disregarded it completely and instead followed Buddha.

Buddha once told his followers, "Don't believe something just because I tell it to you. Don't believe something just because it's written in holy books, is believed by other people, or has been believed for a long time. Consider in your own mind whether a thing is good or bad and make your own decision."

What a switch--religion teaching blind, unthinking obedience and Buddha teaching figure it out for yourself.

Fast forward to another family gather; my gay cousin came in, said hi to his father (conservative Southern Baptist), and was completely ignored. I watched and thought "this is not right. This isn't the way a parent should treat a child."

My decision was made. I don't understand homosexual feelings, but I don't condemn them. I've gone out of my way to let my cousin know I still love him, and I've also welcomed his companion.

Let me add thanks to members of this board who have written on gay issues (which I thought at the time had no relevance for me). All of you helped in my Buddha thought process that finally led me to a wise decision.

I agree

Namaste (I honor the light in you which is the same in me)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2012 11:11PM by mindlight.

So--anyone who isn't married and has sex is immoral in the "religious" attitudes--

So--give gays the right to marry and then what is immoral about it?

Here I'm not even gay--and if anyone could have a "bone to pick" with someone who is gay--IT WOULD BE ME. My life has been a living hell at times--but I love my ex as much as I love anyone--as I told our daughter, "Loving someone enough to let them go is a greater love than holding them hostage."

Gays have as much right to be happy, to be married, to love and be loved--to raise children--as any of the rest of us.

As my lesbian cousin told me--and she is in such a wonderful relationship--she said, "There shouldn't be labels--it is just who we fall in love with--emotionally, mentally, physically, psychologically and sexually." It seems to be only the religious who make it ABOUT SEX. Interesting isn't it.

Having gays be able to marry isn't going to effect any heterosexual marriage out there--



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2012 11:19PM by cl2.