I have started this topic, firstly as a fan of Steve Benson's brilliant cartoons while I was student at BYU, and secondly, since we went to BYU at the same time, I was wondering if he could help me out, or any one else for that matter with and issue I have. At BYU I was taught that what GAs said and wrote was to be treated with absolute respect, obedience, and even as if it was scripture. Does anyone else remember this?

Firstly let me confess, I left the church back in the 1980s. I could not reconcile myself to Mormon racism, or misogynistic views. For example, having to bow my head in the temple and mumble rubbish about obeying the priesthood because of Eve's transgression. (I could not reconcile the 13 Articles of Faith that had been drilled into my head as a child. Why lie to us and teach that we were not guilty of Adam's transgression, only to be told in the temple we were guilty of Eve's?)

Anyway here is the rest of my issue. A lot of GAs and prophets for that matter, have said massively racist, bigoted and xenophobic things. Now Mormon apologists are trying to say that what was said by church leaders does not count. That personal opinions are not the same as church doctrine. WOW! Reed Benson, my Book of Mormon professor at BYU, told me that everything said by GAs including his Dad was "living doctrine." That the modern way scripture came to church members was thought what they said at General Conferences, and even what was said at visits to BYU. I remember one visit where Ezra Taft Benson implied that the 'Negros' got the priesthood because the really bad spirits had all been born. Those that were left in the spirit world and were being born in the 'Latter Days' could now have the priesthood! I was introduced by Reed Benson to his Dad after the fireside chat. I also found his stance on Apartheid in South Africa, where I was born, creepy as well. Ezra Taft Benson defended white South African racists to me and justified Apartheid. At the time I found him creepy, but that was my euphemism for what I think about him now. His hysteria about communists in South Africa and anti-Apartheid activists make him just another racist in a long line of Mormon racists.

Any comments or info would be welcome. Also my husband is Jewish, and Brigham Young said terrible things about Jews. Anybody else have issues with that? Thanks.

P.S. Steve, I still have a copy of your Idi Amin cartoon. It was brilliant and made my day a long time ago on that oppressive campus.

In case you didn't know, you are now Jewish as well. We were just having fun with this on another thread:

But if someone whose blood was wholly of Gentile lineage were converted, he would be adopted into the lineage of Abraham and Jacob and become the house of Israel. (Abraham 2:9-11.) That this action involves a literal change in the convert's blood was plainly taught by the Prophet [Joseph Smith] . . . "while the effect of the Holy Ghost upon a Gentile, is to purge out the old blood, and make him actually of the seed of Abraham. . . ." (Teachings, 149-150) (Mormon Doctrine, 390; emphasis added)

In regards to "doctrine", leaders seem to follow the infuriating habit of picking and choosing when a leader was "speaking as a man" and when he was "speaking as a prophet".

Brigham Young made himself quite clear:

"I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon, and it is as good Scripture as they deserve" (Ibid, Vol. 13, p. 95).

When pressed on anything controversial or embarrassing, most leaders now won't answer the question or will suggest the person was speaking "as a man".

A true sign, if you will, of the corrupt and evil nature of Mormonism is that there are whole organizations within Mormonism (like FAIR and FARMS/Maxwell Institute) that are dedicated (with the tacit approval of LDS Church HQ) to rationalizing and apologizing for the Mormon Church's historical, traditional, cultural and doctrinal track record of racism, misogyny, patriarchy, anti-gay hatred, inhumanity, inequality, corporatism, secrecy, unaccountability, authoritarianism, anti-intellectualism, anti-individualism, brutality and other wars of atrocity waged against the human mind and body.

If the Mormon Church was actually divinely instituted and guided, it would not need to constantly be churning out excuses for its history and official doctrine--or dishonestly covering up and deliberately misrepresenting its history and official doctrine.

The Mormon Church is, at its heart, sick and dysfunctional. manipulatively using phobias and fantasies to pursue power and to effectuate "unrighteous dominion" over the lives and resources of both individuals and governments. There are nice and sincere (albeit gullible) people within the ranks of Mormon believers but the institution of the Mormon Church itself is rotten to the core.



Edited 13 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2012 08:08PM by steve benson.

How interesting about me being Jewish. In my patriarchal blessing I was of the house of Ephraim. There was even a reference made to my blonde hair and blue eyes being a mark of that house. So, according to doctrine I have left Ephraim and joined Judah!

Mormon mythology is endlessly entertaining. Did anyone hear the one where a farmer plowed up the bones of Lamanites and their flesh reappeared in a white and delightsome color?

Speaking of white, if the LDS church is making such an effort in Israel they might think to stop portraying Jesus as a German looking man with blonde hair and blue eyes in all their art. Umm, does that mean he was actually not a Jew but secretly of the house of Ephraim?

Yes. Congratulations! Also, the process works in reverse. When the Lamanites apostasized, their blood changed to that of Asian descent. That's why researchers can't seem to find Jewish DNA in the American Indians.

Here is a great compilation of resources regarding the church and racism:


http://www.mormonhandbook.com/home/racism.html

I've never seen this website before. Thanks for sharing.

Steve good to hear from you. You are of course so very right. It is completely illogical. Even the things we were taught in Primary and Sunday School. Scriptures such as Titus 1: 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him. (King James: Cambridge version)

You cannot claim to be a prophet of what you say is a moral God, and then say and do things that are immoral -- in my opinion. If many Quakers in past American history could figure this out, you would think Mormon prophets, it they were indeed moral, could have.

Here is another verse I was taught in Primary:

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

So Mormon apologists defy logic by claiming the acts of a prophet as a man, are not the same thing as being a prophet of God? That bad fruits are just opinion of the day? That morally flawed men are somehow good men, and we should ignore that they said and did evil things? Immoral is immoral, and Mormons have never been able to figure out how their supposed prophets, some of them who -- by todays laws -- raped underage girls in the pretense of polygamy as marriage, were not men that really can claim to serve a just and moral God. (Yes I know, this opens another whole can of worms in regards to things done in the Old Testament. Personally I am with Einstein and Spinoza. God is embedded in the laws of the universe, not some anthropomorphized jealous and angry old man.)

Thanks for your reply, I feel the same way about Ezra Taft Benson.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2012 07:09PM by drwal.

RE: Yes. Congratulations! Also, the process works in reverse. When the Lamanites apostasized, their blood changed to that of Asian descent. That's why researchers can't seem to find Jewish DNA in the American Indians.

Okay this is so damn funny to me I can't stop laughing!

I'm relatively new to this board and it has been a writer's creative boon. The doctrine is so incredibly kooky and rich with humor I feel like I can riff endlessly, as can many on this board.

I am still laughing. I had the same fit if giggles earlier when I read this: If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there AS A SERVANT, but he will get celestial glory." Race Problems--As They Affect The Church, By Mark Petersen, August 27, 1954.

I kept thinking what someone like Al Sharpton would do with this quote. You know, a Jack Benny like dead pan into the camera. And then . . . "thank you for letting my people into your Mormon heaven as your servants. How benevolent of you."

Then I started to think why one would need servants in the Celestial Kingdom. Servants in a so called heaven? The mind boggles. How can rational people believe this? Then again, I was in so much trouble at BYU. I was told I was going to rationalize myself out of the church. Hmmm, I thought the glory of God was intelligence.

See they aren't racist; if they were racist they would have said "slave", "not servant"

Thank you to Steve, BC for the great links, and CTRringturnsmyfingergreen for all the links and brilliant humor. I have to go pick up my daughter who is a teen volunteer at the Skirball Museum. I will be back. These boards are indeed a boon.

I especially love the wording the first presidency uses in those letters stating that it is based on unchanging doctrine and that they are stating it officially as the first presidency. I also love how they state that McKay said it is based on revelation.

It kind of blows apart the apologetic antics that it was church policy not doctrine.

bc, your links are fantastic. Again, thank you. The slave comment is funny because it is only too true. I have met very few racists who will admit to being a racist, or even understand that they are one. They say stuff exactly like the servant versus slave comment. Or, things like "I have friends who are . . . (pick a race with dark skin) . . .therefore I can't be a racist!"

To be honest I think I may still somewhat racist, sexist, & homophobic.

I am working very hard to not be this way, but I think some of the programming is still in tact.

Interestingly watching Ken Burns, The History of Jazz, did more than anything else for me personally to install a deep sense of respect and admiration for blacks in America.

Jazz will do that!

I'm a fan of Benson's work too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2012 11:44PM by thingsithink.

re:I am working very hard to not be this way, but I think some of the programming is still in tact.

When I was working on my Ph.D. (in the social sciences) I had two wonderful African-American advisor on my dissertation committee. Dr. Barbara Solomon, and Dr. Monica Gordon. (I was working on a topic about racism -- how theatre can be used for educational purposed with socially fraught issues like racism.) As we discussed my work, both these women told me that after a lifetime of work in education and the social sciences the realized that all humans have to be on guard against bigotry and judgement. They included themselves in this.

I think it is those of us who can admit we have struggled with it, or are struggling with it that are actually not the bigots. It is those who loudly proclaim they are not racists or bigots, but then secretly believe junk like "God blessed us with a white skin and dark skinned people are cursed," who are the racists.

I agree. Those who make the loudest proclamations on any subject are typically suspect. Those who say "I struggle with..." can usually be assumed to be making an honest effort.