I know this is OT, but I don't really have anyone else to share it with.

Something has been on my mind for the past few weeks. I'm sick of these words - 'bully' & 'bullying'. We should just call them what they really are - 'abuser' & 'abuse'. When we use the former terms, all we are doing is negating the abuse, & taking it lightly - ie 'It was just a little **bullying**, it was no big deal.' When we use the word 'bullying', we also blame victims of abuse for that abuse. We really need to change the dynamic so that we talk about these things as being physical, mental, emotional, & verbal abuse, as opposed to 'bullying', which overall people still take very lightly for some sick reason.

in trying to coverup abuse of children. One kid after another got assaulted, and the police were never called. Thefts were never reported. It was all kept in house.

Kids just weren't important enough to merit the time of police. Fortunately, that is changing. But it was baffling as a parent and teacher a few decades back.

As yes, remember the good old days. Not.

I was already in school 30 years ago, & I was verbally abused in some way or another every single day of schooling for 13 years. Later years were much worse, when physical abuse came into the picture.

Yes, some things are changing, but it's slow going, IMHO.

Each and every day I got beat up, pushed and shoved around, and called names to describe what an ugly stupid loser I was. One name was just soooooo funny that the freakin' teacher even laughed! When I got so hurt and mad I yelled at him, "Hey, why are YOU laughing too? That's not fair!" he kicked me out of class and sent me to the principal,who told me I shouldn't talk back to a teacher. Bullying abusers suck.

From school every day I went home to Hell 2.0. I'll spare you the details except to say that once again I was stupid and ugly. The only person who didn't seem to think I was hideous... I wished to hell he DID... was my horrible pedophile stepfather, may be burn in hell forever and if there ain't no hell I'll hire a contractor to build one just for him!

What's funny is that I have radar now- I can talk with someone for a few minutes and pretty much tell if they were/are an abusive bully.

Any other survivors do that too or am I weird?

Be Well,
Doxi
Founder and Whiner-in-Chief
Survivors of Nearly Every Rotten Thing (S.N.E.R.T.s)<--- My Cool Siggy!

I think the hypersensitivity to our surroundings, peoples emotional states and body language
are all remnants of the tools we used to survive an abusive home.
It doesn't surprise me at all.
I can usually tell within 5 minutes as well.
And I can spot the bs' ING schmoozer wifebeater type
a mile away. Or at least within 60 seconds.
It can be an uncomfortable, yet enlightening realization.

"What's funny is that I have radar now- I can talk with someone for a few minutes and pretty much tell if they were/are an abusive bully. Any other survivors do that too or am I weird?"

You're not weird, just wiser.

I can spot bullies AND players from a mile away now. Living in Utah County for as long as I have has given me plenty of experience and practice with bullies and players..

"I was verbally abused in some way or another every single day of schooling for 13 years. Later years were much worse, when physical abuse came into the picture."

By any chance, did you go to school in Brigham City, UT (or, as I like to call it, Bigot City)? My situation there in the early 90's was exactly as you described!

And as if that wasn't already bad enough, I was also the victim of theft during my last two years there, including an attempted locker break-in. Somebody tried to smash what appeared to be a cheap plastic lock shackled over my locker handle, only to find a genuine metal padlock inside the plastic covering! HA!!! That idiot didn't get too far with that one!

Matt Groening (creator of the "Life in Hell" comic series, then later, The Simpsons) is right: School is Hell!

Really!? It happens in CA too!!? Holy Shi'ite! The entire school system really is a complete mess!

I myself got out of Utah and moved to California about a decade ago, mainly to get away from all the bigoted Mormon craziness.

Calling abuse "bullying", implies that they are just kids being brats.

My kids have told me stories that shock me. If an adult did those things they could have been arrested and prosecuted for assault.

Some of the stories they tell me most definitely cross the line of sexual harrassment, as well. If a guy did/said that at work, they would be fired AND sued.

The difference is that at school, kids think it's either funny and don't report it, or they are afraid of becoming the target of worse abuse if they report.

And if they DO report it, not much changes, at least not because of anything the school does. I secretly reported some sexual harrassment my daughter was experiencing IN CLASS, very explicitly telling the VP NOT to call them out directly, but have the teacher watch and discover it naturally. But they guys STILL suspected she reported them and they confronted her and got all mad. She was shaken by it.

She still doesn't know I reported it, but at least she could honestly deny having reported it. She's a strong girl, so she screamed at them and threatened them or something and they completely avoided her after that. She has some friends that know how to fight, and have her back, and if it weren't for that there would be bigger problems.

There is a huge problem, in Utah, with sexual harassment in school.

Where I live, school administrators have gotten much better about dealing with sexual harassment and threats because they now understand that there are legal liability issues if they don't deal with the report. Hitting is dealt with promptly as well. Having school-based police officers is useful in this regard because they *will* ensure that the troublemaker is dealt with.

The more subtle types of bullying (usually verbal in nature) are the ones that are harder to cope with. Kids can be very sneaky about this and they are hard to catch at it. Also some victims refuse to report it because they are worried that it will just make the situation worse.

You stole the words right out of my mouth! That's exactly what I mean.

Bullying is most certainly abuse in many or most cases.

I think bullying is even worse than abuse. In general abuse is a private thing where bullying in general is more of group thing. Being abused by a whole group of people is even worse in many ways.

I agree. We expect adults to not hit each other and to not verbally or sexually abuse one another, but for some reason the children get away with it. What is this teaching kids when they dont get punished for it? I think we need more than just a slap on the wrist for children because if they dont then they dont expect to be put in jail for hitting someone when they are older. I went through a tremendous amount of bullying when I was a child just because I was quiet and kept to myself and I was a bit odd... the kids didnt like that. Now I have to go through therapy for it because all the bullying has influenced me to be distant, anti-social, paranoid, agressive, etc. I'll be damned if I see any type of bullying from or to my children. I know I am going to be a loving parent, but I will not sugar-coat reality for them. They hit someone, they get put in jail. PERIOD.

I think the word 'abuse' has become a catchall word that sometimes waters down what really happened.

I fear it's becoming so over used that people are becoming desensitized to it.

We need to use the exact words of what happens - yelling, screaming, hitting, biting, assault, etc. etc. etc.

I think talking about abuse and bullying on a board about recovering from mormonism is not OT at all ;)

It sounds like something that happens in elementary school to the weak and whiny kid. Anti-bullying campaigns are the butt of teenage jokes. Probably because they are so ineffective. (And I should add that one of kids that makes fun of them is the type that steps in when someone is getting picked on and can be pretty intimidating).

I think adults should stop using the word "bully". It does NOT get the message across about how destructive the behavior is. It doesn't teach kids that much of the behavior is ILLEGAL and would be prosecuted, if they did it anywhere but school. Call it cruelty, call it abuse, call it harrassment, call it assault, call it torture, call it slander, call it hate speech. Give it the grown-up name of the CRIME grownups call it. And give the rules some real consequences.

They will admit that bishops and other penishood holders might sometimes unrighteously "bully" the sheeple around. But they never never never "abuse" them. Abuse is an ugly word.

When I tell my stories, I don't generalize, and that makes them very long. I started out by saying, "The Mormons bullied/abused/sexually harrassed my children." So, we were "offended", right? Mormons deny, deny, deny!

What do I mean to say? The adult Mormon priesthood leaders walked into my house, when I was not there. I was at church, playing the organ. This happened on several occasions, with my sons separately. They had two paper routes, which included getting up before dawn to fold and deliver the Sunday paper on Sunday morning, and they sometimes would go back to sleep. The first time was the worst, as we had just moved into the ward, and these men were STRANGERS to my son. They pulled him out of bed, and he woke up on the floor, with two very large men above him, yelling at him to wake up and get to priesthood meeting. They physically shoved him across the room to the closet, and forced him to put on his clothes, without showering, brushing teeth, or even combing his hair. They literally kicked his butt, as he went up the stairs, and when he bolted, they grabbed him, and shoved him into the car. At church, he was ridiculed by the other kids, for his sloppy, bead-head appearance, and that he was BAD because he wanted some sleep. My other son had the same experiences. They were threatened not to tell me, so I didn't know about this until several years after it happened. Is this "discipling?" Is it physical abuse? Verbal abuse? Stalking? Breaking and entering? Trespassing? Violation of human rights? What kind of religion FORCES its members to attend?

What kind of religion protects young men who try to molest my beautiful little girls?

What is "attempted" molestation? Isn't the attempt the same as succeeding? The victim gets the message and is still harmed, right? An arrogant TBM high school senior class officer that my daughter hated, ambushed her in the deserted hallway, and she was just a little sophomore, and couldn't fight back. All he did was kiss her--slobbering all over her mouth and face, and making her sick. She manage to punch him in the stomach, and ran. He was a popular Mormon, and he was mad, so he spread a rumor all over the school that my daughter had had sex with him--a rumor that stayed with her for all three years of high school. That was my daughter's first kiss. She didn't want to kiss anyone for six years after that.

My other little girl was only 11, and the bishop's ugly, creepy son was a senior in high school. At a ward campout, my daughter woke up, and the bishop's son was putting his hands all over her, underneath her sleeping bag, underneath her clothes. She screamed, and woke everyone up. Several kids could see what was happening. The bishop told the kids not to tell. They didn't. My daughter didn't tell even me.

I was beaten up (meaning, black eye, bruises, twisted wrist and neck, tickled, felt-up, thrown down the stairs) tortured (forced to watch animals being abused, threatened with knives, screamed at, threatened with physical sex acts, spied on, called names, humiliated, had my toys broken) almost every day by my brother, who was 6 years older, and huge. I cried and pleaded with my parents to make him stop, and they said, "You know we can't control him. It is up to you to stay out of his way, and keep the peace." Occasionally, when they didn't want to hear my screams, they would say, "Stop TEASING your sister." Yes, all brothers "tease" their little sister, right? My TBM parents didn't believe in psychology. Years later, when my brother was 40, he was diagnosed as bi-polar, and a psychopath, with anger-management issues. Even that diagnosis sounds like an understatement. He was a monster. I have PTSD, and will never feel normal.

School was a safe haven for me--I loved it! I stayed after school for sports, tutoring, music rehearsals, cheerleading--anything--rather than go home. When I was old enough, I worked, then left for college, for good.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2012 03:00AM by forestpal.

I agree with Tristan-Powerslave and the posts here.

The word "bully" implies that this is just part of growing up, and everyone has to deal with it. The word is too soft and it diminishes the crime. The word "bully" should be phased out and replaced with abuser, because that's what a bully really is.

Every human being has the right not to be abused.

The name of the felony should be named.

Beat a kid up or hit them? Assault.

Took his lunch money? Robbery.

Did bizarro sexual things to them? Sexual assault and/or rape.

Start arresting for the crime. That'll stop the actions. When kids realize they'll be hauled off to juvy, have their parents ire, probably lose many of their shots at a college education the first time around, watch how quickly it changes.

When I was a kid, I actually never saw much around me--most kids I knew were pretty inclusive. I've since been exposed to what it actually looks like (I do some things in the local schools to help science teachers with some aviation stuff), and it's hideous. It's like mini-Nazi brigades picking on the defenseless. This isn't dealt with via tongue lashing--these are already-hardened criminals and sociopaths in embryo who need to be stopped as soon as it happens.

Flyboy, that's why having an on-site school police officer is so helpful. Kids and families start realizing that that the offenses are in fact, crimes.

Parents always have this option even when a school-based police officer is not present. If the principal is not handling your child's problems in a satisfactory manner, call the police.

Parents should also advocate for having cameras in hallways, the cafeteria, etc. If there is any question of a physical assault, administrators and police can go back and review the tape.

You're right. It's time for it. Well spoken.