As my wife and I are divorcing, we're working on coming up with a custody arrangement (2 girls, 4 years, 20 months). I initially thought of going for joint physical custody (kids spending roughly equal time with both parents), but it seems that jerks the kids around a lot. So now I'm thinking the standard one night/week, every other weekend, split holidays, extended visitation during the summer. My soon-to-be-ex and I get along really well and it was a mutual decision to divorce (I'm gay) so I can probably eat dinner with the kids and stuff although that wouldn't be in any agreement. What would you guys suggest as being best for the kids?

Also, does anyone know what happens to the marital home if my ex holds onto it without selling? We have some equity in it...

Thanks all!

I think the best thing is for the kids to stay in the house and the parents be the ones to move in and out. See your kids as much as possible! I would go for the joint custody-I don't think that mandates a 50/50 split of time, but it is easier to get mor time with them now than later. She may not always play nice.

If you and the ex can play nice, that is what will ultimately be the best for the kids.

I second this. Really, just because you're divorcing doesn't mean that you have to never step foot into the house again, especially since you're splitting up on good terms. Is there room in the house for you to have a bedroom? If actually continuing to live in the house is too weird (totally understandable if either of you are going to start dating soon), have your own place but spend as much time at the house with your kids and their mom as you all are comfortable with.

The type of custody where kids get shuffled around and the parents are never in the same room together is for parents who are immature and jerks and can't play nice with each other.

That's what my wife's parents did and she doesn't want to repeat it. I'm currently living in the basement (we have an actual apartment) but like you said that may get awkward. :(

So find our own place, make it clear that the kids have a place there, but go around to the house to do most of your visiting with them? If it's really awkward, your wife can use it as an afternoon out if she doesn't want to hang around. There's no reason to only see them weekends and one night a week or whatever when you two are on good terms. Maybe you can work out some "Daddy'll be here for dinner these nights, after dinner to put you to bed the other nights, and around for the day Saturday," or something like that.

"The type of custody where kids get shuffled around and the parents are never in the same room together is for parents who are immature and jerks and can't play nice with each other."


Yes, like mine. :)

But then again, if they could live together, they wouldn't be divorcing. :/

But I sincerely do believe the kids shouldnt be the ones shuffled, it should be the adults who have created the situation.

Good luck. For as long as you can, kids first.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2012 06:06PM by Samantha Baker.

Not everyone who can't stand to be in the same room with the ex is an "immature jerk". Sometimes the kindest thing two people can do is stay away from each other. That being said, I agree that the less shuffling the kids have to do, the better. But make sure your rights are preserved.

Good luck.

That may have come out wrong. My apologies. I meant that the type of scheduling of custody stuff that's very rigid and specific is usually only best when the adults can't communicate well. If they get along well enough, there's no reason they can't do it a bit more on the fly and shuffle themselves around rather than the kids.

It's okay. Before I married a divorced man with a crazy ex wife, I probably would have said something similar. I'm not a child of divorce, so being a second wife has been eye opening for me.

It would be nice if people could just get along, especially when kids are involved. Unfortunately, that takes understanding, selflessness, maturity, and cooperation from both parties. It doesn't work if only one partner is willing.

I would not recommend joint custody, the message from kids who have experienced it is usually that they felt semi-homeless, without any space that felt like 'theirs', and the accompanying feelings of insecurity.

With the four year old, start with every other weekend, and maybe a couple evenings the following week. For infants and toddlers, it can be a bit overwhelming sleeping in a different place, so give her time to get used to your new digs before you start having her overnight.

That's kind of what I'm afraid of on the custody issue... I know I'll miss them but their needs are most important.

With the four year old I can tell her it's a sleepover. She'd love that.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2012 06:05PM by Xyandro.

I divorced in the state of California. I found that the laws and processes in place were fair and I have a lot of faith in the system.

As far as your home and/or ANY assets AND debts that you both have...they are both community property. Both you and your ex have an equal claim to them. This includes retirement accounts. If you both have a clear understanding of how to work those things out then great...get it in writing and that will be part of your MSA (Marital Separation Agreement).

My current wife went through a very amicable divorce with her ex and they were able to work it out without any lawyers and minimal court intervention. From my perspective, that would be ideal. If you and your soon-to-be ex are talking and agreeing, then get a paralegal and settle all of your joint assets and the child custody arrangement while you are still talking to each other. Child support will have to be agreed on too. If you are taking the kids for less time then you will probably be paying more for child support.

In the state of California, your spouse is also entitled (as are you) to spousal support for the length of time that you were both married divided by two. For example, if you were married for two years, there would be spousal support for 1 year. I would not bring it up if you are talking but this may be something to keep in the back of your mind to be prepared for.

Hopefully, you both will be able to work it out like normal people and move on to a more stable footing in the future. Your kids will appreciate that as well.

Oh...never speak ill of your ex anywhere around your kids.

Good luck!

From my experience with my own kids and divorce, the way the OP described seems best. We had an unfriendly divorce. I tried to make it friendly, but she found the meanest lawyer in the county who was more than happy to suck all the money she could out of her client, so everything was contested, and there was something pending in court for two full years. One thing would get resolved, and they’d file a new motion, over and over.

That all said, for a while it was a 50/50 split. That didn’t work well, as the children felt like a ping pong ball bouncing back and forth. No place felt like home, they were visitors at both places it felt like to them.

Then we had joint custody, but I had physical custody with the one week night and every other weekend for her. That made if feel like there was a home base somewhere.

We did holidays by just letting the kids choose where they wanted to go. She made Halloween fun, and it was whatever for me. So they went there for Halloween etc.

I think that getting along, cooperating, having joint decision making, but one home base is a good way for the kids. Living near each other so kids can come and go for drop in visits is great too.

My granddaughter would rather her mother had full custody but that's because her dad is an authoritarian jerk and my granddaughter doesn't like to spend time with him. I think she feels like she's visiting when she's at her dad's house but she has her own room and her own space at her mom's house. She and her mom get along very well too.

A lot of it depends on how the parents handle matters too. :)

We did finish the basement so my ex could live here (gay), but he decided to leave and live with his new boyfriend. I didn't get a divorce as I was too messed up (and a good thing because I've needed his insurance all these years--I never even considered that I'd lose it back then)--

He was allowed to come here anytime he wanted--see the kids anytime, call them. He chose not to spend too much time with them as he was too busy blasting out of the closet (or his boyfriend was always making him feel bad for spending time with his family).

May I suggest--if you can possibly find a partner who also has children--it will make a huge difference in how your parenting situation goes.

After he broke up with that boyfriend--FINALLY--his next partner insisted that he be involved in his kids' lives. He is still close friends with us.

I chose to stay in the house because my kids wanted to--and I still live here. He now lives here, too. The kids are raised. I spend half my time in Colorado (or did before my car wreck and now I'm afraid to drive there)--but we are friends and get along better now than we did "married."

My ex puts a lot more energy into his children now--and they are the main focus of his life, though they are now 26.

The more effort you put into getting along, the better for the children. I also agree that the baby should stay with the mother overnight.

I would suggest you stay in the downstairs apartment as long as it is feasible. It really will work better for all involved.

My ex actually cries over what he lost with his kids in the years he was not as involved as he could have been in their lives. Put your kids first.

I will always be grateful to my parents that they never did the shuffle thing with my sibling and me, not even just every other weekend.

Despite their considerable differences, my mom wanted my dad to spend time with us, so he could come over or take us out any time. They never made that a contentious issue.

For me, personally, it would have contributed immensely to the feeling of insecurity and trauma a child already experiences in divorce if my home life had always been shifting in that way, as a sort of "lesser than" situation than what it had been before. Their allowing us to stay full-time in our family home, in our own beds, gave us a very important feeling of continuity. I would urge you to consider this.

Your kids' definition of stability is probably much narrower than yours, as an adult. One night a week and every other weekend may seem like very little to you, but it's a lot of changing around to a kid.

Glancing at the studies that are out there it seems that joint custody situations result in better adjusted kids, if the parents aren't involved in a high conflict divorce. Not that this is the case for every single case, but on average, kids who have joint custody do better in school, and in some studies are as adjusted as kids from intact homes.

You're talking about joint physical custody? I'm curious to see these studies as most of the people posting seem to say having a stable home (sole physical custody) is more important.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2012 02:18PM by Xyandro.

I replied further down, meant to reply here.

What every custody agreement you arrive at, get it in writing. My friend's ex recently took the kids for his weekend and then didn't return them at the time they had verbally agreed on. She was frantic but finally tracked them all down at his mother's house. However, because the exact expectation wasn't in writing in the divorce decree the police wouldn't take action.

here are a few examples:

http://www.apa.org/monitor/jun02/custody.aspx

http://www.paulbeck.com/Articles-and-Information/Research-on-Shared-Parenting-and-Joint-Custody.shtml

The majority of studies support this, with two dissenting studies that I can find:

first one was done in California, but had very questionable methods.
http://www.salon.com/2000/10/03/wallerstein/
You'll note that she isn't published in a journal, she released it as a book.

The other study mentioned in several places is one done in the 90's but was done with women who were in physically abusive marriages. Some people try to extrapolate that to all divorces, but I'm pretty sure that abusive marriages are a different issue.

you wouldn't spend a nickel for divorce process, provided U agree on all points. That is what happened to me. We had equity in the house, split it, I gave her full custody. And when money was needed for the kids there was some to spend on them.

Nothing is worse than an unreasonable partner in divorce process.
Good luck. Divorce is not as bad as it sounds. Sometimes it is necessary.

You need to consult with an actual lawyer, one with expertise in family law. I know you are getting along with your ex now, but you might not in the future (especially when the harder parenting decisions come up), and the divorce/custody agreement will really become relevant if a problem does arise. If you keep getting along then great, you don't have to worry too much about enforcing parts of the agreement. Don't forget that people can change a lot- she might get some boyfriend who is a total douche and has strong ideas about how to raise your kids or whatnot. A well crafted agreement now could potentially help you avoid a lot of heart ache later.

I would also implore you to think of what the kids may want. I doubt that your kids would only want one night a week with you. Children of divorce know that whole thing about "quality time" is BS. You can't have quality time if you don't have enough quantity to actually build a relationship. Kids become strangers as they get older anyway, a lack of time will make it worse, and stirring things up to change it (in the event of a problem) is also very hard for kids.

We're leaning towards doing an agreement with a mediator or something like that and having lawyers review the final agreement to make sure our interests are well represented. It's important in case things change, like you said.

I want to spend as much time as possible with the kids. In looking at the research amartin provided, it seems that the more time kids spend with both parents the better off they are.

May completely undergo a 180 turn as soon as one of you develops a romantic relationship with somebody else.

Your stbx may change her tune completely, once she starts boinking somebody new, or once you start boinking somebody new.

My advice: 50 / 50 legal custody. 50 / 50 physical custody.

Then after the divorce is finalized, you can let the girls spend more time with your stbx than what is stipulated in the decree. You can always give in that direction (towards letting your stbx have the girls more than 50% of the time). If things get angry and acrimonious (which they often do), and you only have 20% physical custody, don't think she'll do what's best for the girls, and let you have them more often than what the divorce stipulates.

Finally, the older your girls get, things will change, and they may decide to spend more time with you, not less, as they grow. Don't let a legal document (and an angry ex) limit the time your girls might spend with you - both now and in the near future. Leave yourself (and your girls) plenty of lattitude with respect to physical custody.

And to your stbx. Guess what? When you divorce, the new reality for all parties involved entails 2 households, not one. And blended families. Et al.

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GET AN ATTORNEY!