. . . he said he liked the experience.

Say what???

I told him I thought that this smacked of being illegal--falsely producing temple recommend look-a-likes. He showed me an example of his homemade handiwork and it appeared authentic. (It was, in my opinion, an act of theft used for the purpose of trespass).

His attitude was that he enjoyed doing it because it gave him the chance to see the inside of what he regarded as pretty temples located in states across the country. He said it was his goal to visit them all because he regarded these temple trips, on a personal level, to be pleasant excursions.

I found it weird and wrong.

Let's not be stupid, people.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2012 03:30AM by steve benson.

In fairness, he may have been suffering from insanity, which is likely to happen from watching that drivel too many times.

And if he were caught...?

He would probably have faced some criminal charges. Think LDS, Inc. would have gone easy on that one?

It wouldn't look too good for the LDS church to prosecute someone for trespassing in one of their temples. Cause then it just affirms the general public's belief that the temples are places the mormons want to keep secret from the public.

They aren't pretty, & they aren't great architecture either.

Agreed. Superficially, some are, but the quality is lacking. I was in one newer one where the columns looked like stone, but when I tapped on it, there was the hollow masonite sound.

I never totally "counterfeited" a TR, but I did change the expiration date on my own and was able to use it for about two years longer than I should have. It did get closely looked at once and I was not allowed in. Apparently they had changed the design during the interim. I had a cover story of course, about being out of the country for a while and having just gotten back. I wouldn't try it now with the new bar-coded ones they have. You'd need a bar code writer/reader, for one thing.

"You'd need a bar code writer/reader, for one thing."

And you also need to access the computer in SLC to change the original expiration date because, when a recommend is renewed and it is used for the first time, the expiration date is also recorded in the system in SLC.

Ther is NO way this is going to happen today.

Which is why the place is secret, in addition to perhaps being "sacred". Otherwise, common locks would work fine for security.

I don't know if it would be trespassing since it is a public building and he didn't steal anything. The morg would have attracted bad publicity for going after him because it would have brought up why they keep the whole thing secret.

I wonder if his motivation was not the feeling of having pulled a fast one on the morg. The insides are pretty tacky, not high art. His reasoning was very strange but not sure how illegal it was. He forged something but for no gain.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2012 02:21AM by steve benson.

steve benson Wrote:
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> n/t


I don't think it would have been good PR if they had found him out. Although I would have liked to have seen it, as the ridicule would have been amusing.

I'm focusing on matters of law and morality.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2012 02:47AM by steve benson.

I don't see a lot of difference between that guy and a semi-believing member who lies to his bishop, except that one has to pay an entry fee (tithing) to cover up his/her lack of real belief. But since an entry fee is required, then you may be right.

I was in High School in the late '50s early '60s in the Los Angeles area. There was a rumor that the son of an LDS bishop was forging temple recommends to take his friends on tours of the LA temple. I was pre-Mo at the time, didn't know the guy well, and don't know if it was true.

In the old argument between warhead and armor, warhead always wins. If someone really wanted to forge one, even today in the age of barcodes, it could be done. Whether it should or not is a different questions.

Someone not be as honest and upright as the church????

Shame.

It does sound like an enormous waste of time.

I would have loved to see it prosecuted in a very public manner.

The world should be aware that the pass that is sold to people to have their souls saved is considered 'corporate property'

How Christian. The world could be introduced to LDS Inc. the true 'Great and Abominable Church'

Sounds a lot like Catholic indulgences of the middle ages.

There are so many beautiful and amazing buildings in the world why would anybody waste their time going to the temple. Which in my opinion is the same old vanilla building over and over and over.

I can think of much better buildings to visit the Louvre, the Sistene Chapel, the British Museum even the Smithsonian is more interesting.

Oh what a waste of time that he'll never get back.

Me thinks he just liked the idea of pulling a fast one on TSCC.


In my 30 plus years of church activity, I've sat through countless sessions in about 10 or 12 different temples.


Heck, I've even been in the local McTemple after hours, as part of the crew that cleaned the temple (for free, of course).


With the possible exception of one of the old temples like Manti or Salt Lake City, there is nothing in these temples that is unique or special.


The architecture is cookie cutter style, they same two movies play over and over again, the handshakes never change, the bakers hats and flashy green aprons never change...


Yeah, definitely my idea of a hot vacation destination (NOT!)

The last temple recommend that I possessed for 2 years, I never went to the temple once.

That both Steve and I are aware of... I'm just the reporter here, however, but I'll indulge in a bit of non-judgmental exploration and editorializing...

There are those who apparently feel a need to "exorcise" their Mormonism in this fashion... I'm not one of those; I was uncomfortable with the "unbaptisms, etc." at one of the conferences (and "proxy posthumous unbaptisms" for dead church leaders).

Okay, some may see it as a form of "civil disobedience" and take their justification from Thoreau, Ghandhi, Martin Luther King and others (Happy Birthday, Mr. Mandela!). One is, of necessity responsible for one's actions, however, and something like this would reflect badly on the ex-Mormon community (which is why discussions of the "hows" will get pulled here every time).

But per Edward Abbey: "Monkey wrenching is something that should be done quietly and not talked about afterwards."

Just some cabdriver thoughts... Frankly though, I think it's okay to continue to pass on stories about this stuff continuing whether it is or not...

It'll keep the church security people nervous.

weird, no matter

As for Burglary, it goes like this.
Statutory definition: The criminal offense of breaking and entering a building illegally for the purpose of committing a crime.
Common Law definition: The trespassory breaking and entering of the dwelling of another at night with an intent to commit a felony therein.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/burglary
http://www.misswiselaw.com/2010/11/common-law-burglary.html

Since the whole purpose of getting in to the building is to get in to the building, going in to a temple (private property) with a fake recommend is closer to trespassing. A person who enters a *Member's Only* club without permission is trespassing.

T-Bone
Just offering information - NOT legal advice!

A legal definition of "trespass":

"An unlawful intrusion that interferes with one's person or property.

"Tort Law originated in England with the action of trespass. Initially trespass was any wrongful conduct directly causing injury or loss; in modern law trespass is an unauthorized entry upon land. A trespass gives the aggrieved party the right to bring a civil lawsuit and collect damages as compensation for the interference and for any harm suffered. Trespass is an intentional tort and, in some circumstances, can be punished as a crime. . ..

"Some modern statutes make any unlawful entry onto another's property a crime. . . . {I]n some states trespass is a criminal offense regardless of the defendant's intent.

"Some statutes consider a trespass criminal only if the defendant has an unlawful purpose in entering or remaining in the place where he has no right to be. . . . Statutes in some states specify that a trespass is not criminal until after a warning, either spoken or by posted signs, has been given to the trespasser. Criminal trespass is punishable by fine or imprisonment or both."

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/trespass



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2012 06:56PM by steve benson.

This sounds like it must be one of the 3 Nephites or perhaps John the Beloved. These guys can't get valid temple recommends because their date of birth was so long ago. It would raise all sorts of red flags. Hence they have to resort to counterfeiting.

I wouldn't be so hard on the guy, you were probably in the company of greatness and had no idea.

There used to be a guy on this board with a similar story. After he offered to make TRs for anyone who wanted them he was banned for life.

I can see why Susan I/S and Eric wouldn't want to be involved in illegal activity.

A couple of my friends are practicing Momo's and they're fine with me using their temple recommends to go inside the temple. And yes, they are aware of my stance with the Mormon church. I have this weird urge to bring in a can of beer and crack it open when the movie starts.