Specifically vs other Christian religions. Just how do we compare vs other major sects? I'd assume mormons rank up there with Catholics, scientologists, JW's. Not sure if Westboro baptist church would qualify but they're noisy. Do you think cojcolds is # 1? I think scientologists beat cojcolds though.

I wouldn't put Catholics in with that group even though I don't agree with all their dogma. They are mainstream, pretty easygoing and most members are pretty independent and do as they wish. A lot of them are pretty liberal politically. I'd add the Bible beating Fundie churches, the religious right and, yes, Mormons are right up there with them.These are the ones who as a whole want to force all of us to live by their standards.

I agree with Bona regarding Catholics. Sure, they are still delusional, but not at the level of scientology and Mormonism. There is a kookiness scale that we have to recognize.

Catholic - Only the Pope and Cardinals and such have to wear Liberace suits, on special occasions.

Mormon - Everybody in the coven circle wears a Pillsbury Doughboy suit.

Baseball - One player at a time wears a helmet.

Football - All the players on the field wear a helmet.

At some point one needs to say that there just isn't enough difference to even have a good discussion over.

My beef with the catholic church is it's history, war on science, crusades, cutting off heads of natives of conquered countries if they didn't convert, witch hunts and much much more. To be quite honest the evils in the Mormon church pale in comparison, although that's probably just because the catholic church is much larger and has been around longer.

That was 500 years ago. The church no longer does any of those things, has apologized for them and supports science and believes in evolution. You can't fairly judge people for what theyr ancestors did 500 years ago in a very different time.This country lynched blacks, practiced slavery, didn't allow women to vote and murdered the Indians. Do you want to be blamed for what happened 100, 200 years ago? BTW, the Dark Ages would have been much worse if the Catholic church hadn't preserved ancient documents, made copies of them, supported art and founded universities.You have a one sides view of the history.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2012 11:34PM by bona dea.

My problem with the Mormon church is largely based on its history, founding "prophet", Brigham young and many early doctrines. It wasn't so much the church as it is today that caused my disbelief but its past. It is all one continuous chain and fundamentally the same faith. I believe this is applicable in a sense to the catholic church. While yes, ideas change, people change and things improve, it is my perspective (not everyone's perspective obviously) that there are still some considerably strange things going on within the catholic church, in addition to the obvious belief structure, some of which is very mainstream some not, but also things that go on behind the scenes, and not just referring to pedophile priests (which I know is not a Vatican sanctioned practice). Oh, and I wasn't judging people as in today's catholics. Sticking to a macro perspective on this one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2012 11:50PM by Mormoney.

Some recent history:

Hiding priests that molested children.

Blaming the molestation problem on gays.

When a report financed by the Catholic Church that contradicted the idea that the molestation problem was caused by gays, the report never saw the light of day.

Opposing condoms and birth control, insuring that many families have more children than they can afford, meaning more children living in poverty.

Opposing condoms as a means of preventing the spread of serious diseases.

Actively trying to take away the rights of at least one minority group.

There does seem to be a double standard with some people here...

No, I am simply saying that we should judge Catholics and Mormons on what they are today. That doesn't mean I have to like JS or BY but modern Mormons are not responsible for what they did and the church has changed.So has the Catholic church. Got it?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2012 12:06AM by bona dea.

You need a new catch phrase. Got it, is getting old. Got it?

Sorry you don't like it but you do seem very clueless about what I am saying. BTW, I am not one of the posters who goes on and on about how wrong today;s Mormons are because of what happened in pioneer time. I find that as offensive as blaming today's Catholics for the Crusades

500 years of being a constant source of pain and suffering. Yes, ALL the 500 years should be looked at to see that the Catholic Church has been abusive for centuries.

Please point out to me where I said anything about that. I was merely stating that some people do have a double standard here. You assumed I was talking about you. I believe your beef is not with me but with the other posters. But thanks anyways.

If you were not talking about me, I apologize, but it sure sounded as if you were since I was the only one here talking about history.I can't imagine who else in this thread that your comments would apply to but maybe you were speaking generally.

By here, I didn't necessarily mean in this thread, but on the board in general. I'll accept your apology.

I don't blame my TBM parents or family for JS or BY's polygamy and other evils. I just hope they'll see the truth of it all

MJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some recent history:
>
> Hiding priests that molested children.
>
> Blaming the molestation problem on gays.
>
> When a report financed by the Catholic Church that
> contradicted the idea that the molestation problem
> was caused by gays, the report never saw the light
> of day.
>
> Opposing condoms and birth control, insuring that
> many families have more children than they can
> afford, meaning more children living in poverty.
>
> Opposing condoms as a means of preventing the
> spread of serious diseases.
>
> Actively trying to take away the rights of at
> least one minority group.


These are all very recent. This is not "blaming people for their ancestors' faults."

The INSTITUTION can be held accountable as a consistent source of suffering.

And I said that these things are fair game if reported accurately and not exaggerated. We were talking about Crusades and killing Indians.

I don't have a problem with blaming them for what happens now so long as it is accurate, but I stand by what I said about 500 years ago. BTW, comparing a Renaissance pope who was a jerk to JS is silly. JS made the whole thing up. The Renaissance pope didn't although he may not have been a nice guy. He was simply one of many and all organizations have bad people in them. Besides judging people of different eras by our standards is arrogant. Sorry, but I get tired of the Catholic bashing that goes on here. Some of it is justified, but a lot of it is misinforamtion and simple prejudice by people who know very litte about the subject other than a few newspaper articles and w hat they learned from the Morg about the great and abominable church.I do not agree with the Cathpolics position on birth control, the way they handles the pedophile scandal etc, but that is a far cry from sayoing they are anti science and caused the Dark Ages. Sorry, but you need to do some reading. There is a lot more to it.

I see your point. I would suggest that killing is an immoral practice is most eras, so if condemning that makes me arrogant so be it. I met a man once from Mexico while I was on a mini mission. He was an atheist and we were teaching him the lies of TSCC. He used to be catholic but left because he discovered his ancestors were forced to convert. He told me this about 15 years ago and that emotion when he told us this has kept a lasting impression in my mind. My only thought was at the time "well it wasn't us"

Killing in war is accepted. Executing criminals is accepted. Depends on the context. We as Americans killed Indians and Blacks in the past. Should today's Americans be blamed? It is the same principle.

Apples and oranges

Many of the people Catholics killed were breaking the lawas of the time of were killed in war. It is the same thing. Whether the laws of wars were fair is another issue, but then ours aren't always fair either. At any rate, judging people of the past for not following modern rules isn't fair. Washington and Jefferson owned slaves and considered them to be less than free white people. That was accepted in their day, but not in ours. Should we say they are evil people? I think it is enough to say that slavery is wrong and that Washington and Jefferson were products of another time.

This conversation has become pointless. You seem to understand that I am judging my catholic cousins and grandparents and all other catholics in existence today for the church's muddy past and counter-productive policies in effect today. One can't argue with another person when that other person keeps putting words in one's mouth.

Signing off this topic. Have at it

Well if I am putting words in your mouth you are doing the same to me. In addition you don't seem to be getting my points so I agree that this is pointless.

Nations change, people change. God does not, nor should fundamental values of human life from a religious perspective, if God is unalterable

... has more to do with the Pope's war on africans. Millions are dying in AIDS, and the Pope's solution? Ban condoms that could prevent the spread of the disease, ban sex education that could prevent the spread of the disease, encourage married couple's to have unprotected sex that spreads the disease and leads to the birth of kids with HIV.

Catholic religion, Mormon religion - nuts.

What about the individuals within the institutions? How do the respective institutions impact the individuals?

I find Catholics, in general, more interesting BY FAR. Mormons are more like Muslims in terms of pure nutty behavior.