I'm reading the BofM all the way through (I'm just curious).

Everybody here knows that the BofM is a lie, but for this topic let's just assume for a moment that it actually is based on fact.

I noticed that suddenly when I get to Jacob Chapter 4, there's mention of Christ. Up until that point there's no mention. I may have missed it, but it seemed to me that when they left the old world to reach the new world, it was before Christ? And I don't recall reading anything about Christ coming to the New World up until that point either?

It takes several readings of the Book Of Mormon to get things straightened out as to who is who and what happeded when.
I am not suggesting you invest that much time in it.
Here is your answer in a brief form. Jesus actual comming to the Nephites (according to BOM) doesn't happen until 3rd Nephi who is 600 years later than the Nephi that writes first and second Nephi. Jacob is a younger brother to the first Nephi and when he speaks of Jesus he is speaking of the Jesus that is yet to be born several hundred years later.
Don't waste too much time on this. I wasted years trying to figure this all out and you have a long way to go yet.

How did you get past the writings of Isiah? That is where most people give up on reading the BOM.

I guess it would really help if the BofM had notation before the books to give a timeline like most Bibles had (I guess that'd require some math, though).

This is actually the 6th time I've -attempted- to read it. The only reason I'm getting through it is because I have a reading buddy this time around. Before this I couldn't get past 2nd Nephi (a former LDS friend of mine said "try and try, you can't get past 2nd Nephi").

anoninnv Wrote:
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...
> And I don't recall reading anything about
> Christ coming to the New World up until that point
> either?

Mormonism is based upon the conceit that history is divided
into 7 Christian (read: "Mormon") dispensations -- and that
the practitioners of true religions have been Christians, all
the way back to Adam, who was baptized in the name of the
Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

Therefore, in the Mosaic dispensation (when Lehi, Nephi,
Jacob, etc. supposedly lived) the pious believers and their
prophets were ALREADY Christians, and already "saved" by
their belief in a future Messiah.

The Book of Mormon narrative is a bit spotty and contradictory
upon this 7-Christian-dispensation theme, but I conclude that
Joe Smith and his associates made an attempt to forecast the
coming birth of Jesus throughout the books prior to 3rd Nephi.
The editing wasn't well done, and thus the story gets a bit
confusing at times, as to who knew of Christ's coming and
who did not.

UD

Uncle Dale Wrote:
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> The editing wasn't well done, and thus the
> story gets a bit confusing at times, as to
> who knew of Christ's coming and who did not.

This leaves open the strange possibility that there was
an early (discarded) version of the Book of Mormon, in
which Christ only appeared in the Holy Land, and the
supposed Nephite Christians only heard of this advent
in far off Palestine, via their home0grown prophets,
or perhaps from some wandering early apostolic missionary.

If there was such a "first draft" Book of Mormon, it was
revised in 1828-29 to include the 3rd Nephi advent. And
(again "if") this being the case, Smith and associates
were not entirely successful in changing the second draft
of the Nephite narrative, to forecast the American advent.

This would explain why some early Nephites appear to know
of the Bethlehem advent; some seem to know of the Zarahemla
advent; and some seem to know little or nothing of Christ.

UD

The 7 Christian dispensation is fascinating. Thank you for the insight.

Maze Ministry has a comparison between the 1830 edition of the BofM with the modern BofM. Changes are highlighted in red: http://www.mazeministry.com/machine/index.htm . Estimated to be about 3,913 changes according to several articles.

You missed several references to Christ before Jacob 4.

The way the story goes is that Nephi had a huge epic revelation (see 1 nephi 11-13) where he sees the whole history of the world in vivid detail right up until the life of Joseph Smith and nothing thereafter.

At this point he is giving a vivid revelation about Christ. There is also a weak attempt to reconcile how they would live both the law of Moses and believe in Christ at the same time.

Jacob is also said to have had a revelation about Christ - I believe somewhere in 2nd Nephi.

Thank you for pointing out the chapters where it is mentioned as revelation. This is very helpful.

I find Nephi's vision to be one of the most interesting/best written sections of the Book of Mormon.

He is threading together 3 things at once - the interpretation of Lehi's dream in chapter 8, a description of Christ, and a history of the world. Essentially Christ's atonement is the "fruit" spoken of in the dream also called the "love of God".

Definitely too complex for Nephi.

bc Wrote:
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>
> The way the story goes is that Nephi had a huge epic revelation (see 1 nephi 11-13) where he sees
the whole history of the world in vivid detail right up until the life of Joseph Smith and nothing thereafter.



That was very convenient for Smith and his masonic cohorts, wasn’t it? It couldn’t have gotten more convenient if they had made it up themselves! Nothing thereafter….hmmmm… I wonder why. Smith, the phony prophet couldn’t get revelation on things after him. Even his so-called revelation on the civil war was received AFTER letters of the war were published and made known about, but members don’t bother to research that, they take his word that he got a revelation.




bc Wrote:
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> Jacob is also said to have had a revelation about Christ - I believe somewhere in 2nd Nephi.


An interesting thing that dawned on me after reading your comment (and it hadn’t occurred to me before) is that a lot of Smith’s words reflect the b of m verbatim, but these Christ references reflect more of the new testament than the old testament era from when these writers allegedly came. That’s not only confusing, but very suspicious. Bear with me as I try to work this out…..

For example, compare the old testament writings of the belief in the Messiah who had no name ascribed to him. If these book of Mormon writers truly were from location and time of the old testament, their writings would have more reflected the style of the old testament terminology of a messiah, instead of the style of the new testament Christ.

The old testament writers claimed to have revelations of a messiah too, yet those writings are somewhat similar of that era and Hebrew influence , and the bom writings are more similar to the New testament influence, which of course was the era when Smith and his masonic friends wrote it.

Even if the bom writers were real and had a revelation of a Christ one would think the b. of m. revelators would have gotten his name accurate. Instead they used a new testament name and terminology in an old testament era which used different terminology to describe the Hebrew messiah and the name the alleged Hebrew Jewish book of Mormon revelators used isn’t even Jewish. The term Christ or Christus in the new testament was a Greco-Roman influenced creation to Hellenize the Jewish name Messiah
Even if you talk to some of the recently formed messianic Jews you’ll find that they refer to Jesus as Yeshua as modernized but still somewhat in keeping with the old Hebrew type of format. Somehow the b of m prophets lost their Hebrew ability and rather than phrasing the messiah’s name in Hebrew (Yeshua, to fit the current messianic Jewish Hebrew language) they gave him the Roman/Greek name.
Yep, the b of m prophets really didn’t see past Smith’s era.

There is nothing Hebrew about the book of Mormon writers talking about a Hebrew Christ from the alleged era of pre-christianity. That’s why it never went past Smith’s era…it was all made up in their era.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2012 05:54PM by dec.