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Posted by: drwal ( )
Date: July 29, 2012 03:23PM

I wanted to vomit when I read the LA Times this morning. An article titled 'Mormons in Israel' is the biggest garbage propaganda piece one can imagine. It features a picture of Romney addressing the Jews in Florida. The article is full junk like "the Holy Land figures prominently in Mormon theological tracts. Thomas (TBM missionary in 1913) was keenly aware of Mormon prophecies about an ingathering of Jewish exiles and the rebirth of the Jewish Homeland . . ." I don't know if the times will print one response to this, but I do know they take notice when multiple letter come in. There must me a way to get them to take notice of this quote --

“I would rather undertake to convert five thousand Lamanites [native Americans], than to convert one of those poor MISERABLE CREATURES [Jews] WHOSE FATHERS KILLED THE SAVIOR…. Yes, I would rather undertake to CONVERT THE DEVIL HIMSELF, if it were possible. …I would say, LEAVE THEM, AND COME HOME, THE LORD DOES NOT REQUIRE YOU TO STAY THERE, FOR THEY MUST SUFFER AND BE DAMNED. …[L]EAVE THEM TO LIVE AND DIE IN THEIR SINS and IGNORANCE. …[T]HEY TAKE PLEASURE IN THEIR WICKEDNESS….” LDS “Prophet” Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p. 143, 1854

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Posted by: drwal ( )
Date: July 29, 2012 03:35PM

Quote --"There is a popular myth that Orson Hyde was of Jewish ancestry, but careful investigation has uncovered no evidence this is true."

Does anyone have any info on this? Also was the response of Brigham Young in the above quote to Hyde?

Hyde is being touted by Mormons and Romney campaign people as the first Mormon Jew to return to Israel. It is the press in Israel as well.

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Posted by: Nancy Rigdon ( )
Date: July 29, 2012 05:14PM

I hope the real reason Joe sent Orson Hyde to Isreal is picked up by the media.

While Hyde was in Isreal, Joe married his wife, Miranda Hyde.

That's the rest of the story!

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Posted by: hello ( )
Date: July 30, 2012 04:13AM

The Wikipedia article about Hyde, based on a wide range of historical documents, and which describes his visit to and dedication of Palestine and Jerusalem, makes no mention of any Jewish ancestry for Hyde.

In "Mormons and Jews", by Steven Epperson (Signature), he details Hyde's mission to Palestine etc., and yet makes no mention of his alleged Jewish ancestry.

If Hyde, as is likely, is not Jewish, then Mittster is getting way out there. The presidential race has become a musical farce, like something from Gilbert and Sullivan, or the current "The Book Of Mormon".

Which candidate will grovel and prostitute himself the most?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2012 04:45AM by hello.

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Posted by: drwal ( )
Date: July 30, 2012 12:24AM

Wow! Thanks for that information!

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Posted by: Re ( )
Date: July 30, 2012 12:37AM

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Posted by: enoughenoch19 ( )
Date: July 30, 2012 04:45AM

I just put that quote on FB...........the shit will hit the fan tomorrow. I am so sick of Mittler I am puking!

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Posted by: drwal ( )
Date: July 30, 2012 05:17AM

The Dogs Against Romney bit of FB is hysterically funny!

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Posted by: drwal ( )
Date: July 30, 2012 05:22AM

The Mormon apologists are out in full force trying to say that Brigham Young never said any of the things he said. His SCRIBE made it up! Never mind the BY endorsed all his own writings in the JD. Also they are making up junk like "that is not what he meant about ALL Jews, only the ones who killed Jesus!"

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Posted by: drwal ( )
Date: July 30, 2012 05:25AM

After a careful reading of this entire document known as Journal of Discourses volume 2, all I can say is that despite what some Mormon apologists claim, Brigham Young was clearly anti-Semitic. He scapegoated on to Jews of his day living in the 1850s exactly in the same way other anti-Semites have after him all the way down to current Neo-Nazi’s. Additionally, Mormons believe their church presidents like Brigham Young, and all those that followed him are actual prophets.

The Lord has made it clear that we are to receive the words of the living prophet as if from the Lord’s own mouth (see D&C 21:5 ).
President Ezra Taft Benson said that the “living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works” (“Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet,” in Speeches of the Year, 1980 [Provo: Brigham Young University, 1981], p. 26).

Brigham Young also made this claim (from Jews for Judaism)

In response to those "in the councils of the nations" who faulted Brigham Young for claiming that "when he sends forth his discourses to the world they may call them Scripture," he commented, "I say now, when they are copied and approved by me they are as good Scripture as is couched in this Bible, and if you want to read revelation read the sayings of him who knows the mind of God. . . ."2

The wisdom and authority Young’s words are supposed to convey to the Latter-day Saints community, are illustrated by his declaration that: “I am here to give this people, called Latter-day Saints, counsel to direct them in the path of life. I am here to answer; I shall be on hand to answer when I am called upon, for all the counsel and for all the instruction that I have given to this people.”

For The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Brigham Young’s discourses and sermons are to be considered as revealed scripture. For a Latter-day Saint to deny this is tantamount to calling Brigham Young a liar and a fraud. That is why it is so strange to see Latter-day missionary literature directed specifically toward the Jewish people. In the Journal of Discourses the following statement by Brigham Young concerning the Jewish people is recorded:

. . . You may break their iron bands, and set them at liberty, and but few of them will receive the Gospel. Why is this? Because their fathers heard the Gospel, and most of them rejected it; and the curse of the Almighty is upon them, and upon their posterity until they have wrought out their salvation by suffering; for the last shall be first, and the first shall be last.

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Posted by: John_Lyle ( )
Date: August 21, 2012 09:01PM

BY was talking as an idiot that day, not a profit

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Posted by: Taddlywog ( )
Date: July 30, 2012 05:54AM

The Mormon belief in Israel is tied in the gathering of the ten tribes and the earth being restored to its paradisical glory. The a vote for Romney is a vote to bid the end of the world's precarious peace. I saw an interviewer this morning on TV question him about something he said in support of Israel attacking Iran's. He refused to expand on that concept. But I think the press is on to something that needs to be explored here.

The 10th Article of Faith

10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2012 03:28PM by Taddlywog.

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Posted by: thralldom of the unbeliever ( )
Date: July 30, 2012 06:21AM

"We thank Thee, O God, our Eternal Father, that the land of Palestine, the land where our Savior and Redeemer ministered in the flesh where He gave to the world the plan of life and salvation, is now redeemed from the thralldom of the unbeliever, and is now under the fostering care of the great, enlightened and liberty-loving empire of Great Britain. We acknowledge Thy hand, O God, in the wonderful events which have led up to the partial redemption of the land of Judah, and we beseech Thee, O Father, that the Jews may, at no far distant date, be gathered home to the land of their fathers.

We thank Thee that Thy servants, the Prophets Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, were moved upon to send Apostles to Jerusalem to dedicate that land for the return of the Jews.

We acknowledge Thy hand, O God, our Heavenly Father, in the fact that one of the benefits of the great World War, through which the nations of the earth have recently passed, is the opportunity afforded the Jews to return to the land of their fathers."

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Posted by: hello ( )
Date: July 30, 2012 01:52PM

" and is now under the fostering care of the great, enlightened and liberty-loving empire of Great Britain. "

Ironic that the Rotschild Zionists, whom Grant was sucking up to so hotly, have organized Israel as one of the most racist, apartheid regimes in the modern era. A land of liberty, Israel is not.

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Posted by: archytas ( )
Date: July 30, 2012 07:11PM

Whoa, whoa.

Aren't we being a bit hyperbolic?

For people that are either gay, female, atheist, Jewish, or any combination of the categories just listed, I would say that Israel is the most free country in the region. If you can name a country that is a counterexample, by all means do so.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2012 07:44PM by archytas.

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Posted by: hello ( )
Date: July 30, 2012 11:04PM

archytas Wrote:
> For people that are either gay, female, atheist,
> Jewish, or any combination of the categories just
> listed, I would say that Israel is the most free
> country in the region. If you can name a country
> that is a counterexample, by all means do so.

You may be right, if you are talking about Israeli Ashkenazim (those of primarily European extraction). They run Israeli society, and reap most of the benefits.

But even if you are right about Israel being the most free state in the region, that doesn't mean that Israelis are actually free.

The ME and Palestinian Jewish Sephardim are second class by definition, in the minds of the Ashkenazim. Doesn't matter if they are male, hetero, gay, female, atheist, Jewish, or any combination---Sephardim are inferior to the ruling Ashkenazim, and they are punished, excluded, educated, hired and paid accordingly.

Yet further down the totem pole are all African (black) Jews, whether hetero, male, gay, female, atheist, Jewish, or any combination. Ashkenazim want them to leave Israel, pronto, and are passing laws to make this happen. The right of return does not apply to the schwartze.

And finally there are the Palestinian Muslims and Christians. They are at the bottom, no matter what. They have no civil rights.

Israel is a fully apartheid state. It is a rogue state, refusing to comply with any UN action or other international civil convention. They violate international law with impunity, protected by the US and GB.

But I think you are wrong. Iran is more free in many ways than Israel, just ask the tens of thousands of Jews that live there happily, and refuse to leave for any reason. They can't be tempted to move to Israel for love nor money. Iran is bad for gays, and bad for women who disobey Islam, but Iran is still way better and more "civilized" than Israel.

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Posted by: archytas ( )
Date: August 04, 2012 11:37PM

Is there any other country in the region that has gay pride parades?

Israel has them. They haven't always gone smoothly, but at least they are there.

I definitely do not think it is a utopia, nor do I think it is the promise land, but for secularism, it is the best option in the region.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2012 11:38PM by archytas.

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Posted by: Ragnar ( )
Date: August 05, 2012 09:56AM

So? Apartheid South Africa was the most democratic and free country in its region.

What's your point? That a sewer with donkey turds is better than a sewer with elephant turds?

Israel is an aprtheid country that supports a racial, ethnic, and religious class system. It bullies its own residents as well as many other countries, demanding that they do as Israel wants. It has sent murderers to other countries to kill innocent people. It has spied on the U.S. (a supposed ally), and even attacked U.S. forces, killing and injuring scores of U.S. servicement (USS Liberty).

Just because Israel is deemed by some as 'the best counrty in the region' is no excuse for its horrendous behavior.

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Posted by: hello ( )
Date: August 21, 2012 03:53PM

archytas, I take back whatever good things I said about Iran. The latest out of that country is that they are banning women from many university degree tracks, based solely on gender. Really disgusting, Muslims get over yourselves, you're sexism is toxic!

But I still agree with Ragnar...

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Posted by: Flyer ( )
Date: July 30, 2012 07:29PM

My TBM father used to say that Mormons and orthodox Jews have a lot in common theologically, but not all the other Jews.

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: August 05, 2012 12:39AM

If you want to win the US presidency you have to get the jewish vote. Israel was smart. When Eisenhower told them to get out of the Sinai they started one of the most powerful lobby organization in the US. So powerful you need AIPAC's blessing to win. With Obama saying Israel should go back to the 67 borders and his snide attitude towards Israil, Mitt knows he's got an advantage and he is putting focus there. Smart political move on his part.

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Posted by: John_Lyle ( )
Date: August 21, 2012 09:08PM

BYU has a 'building' in Jerusalem...

Israel doesn't allow any proselytizing by mormons in Israel. And no mishies...

The morg were kicked out of Israel, entirely, for attempting to convert Jews. There were discussions and they were let back into Israel for non-missionary purposes in 2006...,7340,L-3266355,00.html

I guess they were trying to convert, 'good Jews', not the evil ones that JS was talking about.

I've spent a lot of time in the middle east, working. Mostly in the Kingdom (Saudi). Five minutes after you get off the airplane in Riyadh, you quickly realize the US support for any regime in the middle east requires more cognitive dissonance than believing the in the morg.

All wars are over resources. Israel & Saudi Arabia protect American interests in middle eastern petroleum resources. Provide the US with jumping off points to start wars over petroleum resources. The Israelis and the Saudis are barbaric, but I wouldn't look for the US to abandon either for awhile.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2012 09:14PM by John_Lyle.

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: August 22, 2012 03:27AM

It's all about keeping the US Dollar the world reserve currency. China and other countries need that middle east oil more than we do. As long as the world needs OPEC oil and they force the rest of the world to pay dollars for it, the US Dollar is on top.

Why we invaded Iraq is Saddam refused to take US Dollars for his oil.

This is what it's all about. The last thing the bankers and oil barons want is peace in the middle east. Peace and oil becoming obsolete would be their absolute nightmare.

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: August 22, 2012 01:18AM

This is why Israel is the holy land. Can't blame the Mormons wanting some of it.

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