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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: September 29, 2010 12:44PM

The power of the Spiritual Witness....

Mormons testify that they know the church is true, they know Joseph Smith was a prophet, etc.

What they mean is that they "know" by a spiritual witness through faith.
They know the claims of angels, and visions, Heavenly Father, Jesus, and other Biblical and Book of Mormon characters appearing to Joseph Smith and translations are as true as the sun coming up in the morning. Dreams, visions, etc, are as real as any other experience.

What is "true" about the LDS Church and it's claim?

These are my conclusions.

It's a true church. Oh ya. It sure is. It has all of the components of a church: sacred writings, prophets, leaders, buildings,teachings, rituals,special music, special attire.

.It's not a false church because..well...a false church would be a building that says it's a church but is really a gas station. :-)

It's a true religious myth - a God Myth with a savior like dozens of others that preceded it with creation stories, leaders claiming a calling from the specific deity, commandments, and rituals with unique attire all, etc. to please the deity with promises of rewards in an after life, or punishments if the life long test is not met. It's what I call the general plan! It works for most religions with a few variations.

It is paramount that the person believe and testify by a spiritual witness that Joseph Smith Jr restored the only true church of Jesus Christ,, Jesus is the Savior, and be willing to live according to the Plan of Salvation and all that entails with a list of right/wrong, good/bad, of God/ of Satan, righteous/unrighteous etc. Denying the spiritual witness is tantamount to denying God which is even worse!

This is the basis for traditional religions: Emotional bonds/attachments to traditional beliefs even if they are weird superstitions overrides logic and reason if one is constantly immersed in talk that is "truth."

A believer that professes a spiritual witness will most likely never waiver. They have placed their trust in the validity of the claims by Joseph Smith Jr of visions, angels, translations by "the spirit" the validity of which is not to be questioned.
Nothing, absolutely nothing will penetrate a solid spiritual witness. This is the subjective truth. It's true, it's always true, it can never be false - it's a personal, subjective truth based on the validity of supernatural claims.

This is also the basis for other religious believers. The power of the spiritual witness in supernatural, metaphysical claims has the highest validity. They know what they see, what they feel.

It's my observation that those that leave the LDS Church are no longer satisfied with a testimony of faith by spiritual witness. It's just not enough.
The original historical claims won't hold up to the kind of objective scrutiny that discounts a spiritual witness. Of course, history is interpreted carefully by the believers to discount any objective view, any objections, any contrary conclusions.
It is cemented by the spiritual witness. Critical thinking, examination, objective study, historical facts and evidences (or lack thereof) is not needed. It's only necessary to believe by faith by the spiritual witness.

When someone says the non-believer - former member: "lost the spirit" they are saying they lost the spiritual witness by faith. According to their teachings, and claims: that's a sin. A big one. That's denying Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, Joseph Smith Jr, the current prophet, destroyed the whole family, and it's unacceptable in their mind that anyone could even think of doing that to ....them. It's now personal. Very personal.

When members leave the LDS Church it's construed as a personal failure by parents, in particular, and an insult to all they have done to teach them as proper parents are supposed to do, destroyed the family continuity for all eternity, stomping on the graves of their ancestors. This is believed as strongly as the sun coming up in the morning.

I can only speak for myself, but the emotional bond/attachment to the teachings began to fray little by little - mostly by the inconsistencies, the lack of redress, and the continual blame being placed on me, even for things I didn't do. I was guilty by rumor, and innuendo of a thousand infractions and a host of very strange, odd, funny experiences that left me wondering: what is going on here? Those experiences, while great learning tools, didn't add up, didn't match up with the teachings that claimed to bring the only true joy. Something was "wrong with this picture. Big Time.For years, I attributed it to : the church is perfect, the people are not, even though that didn't make sense either.

When I realized, reading a web site on line, that it was an impossible story to believe as recorded by the original historians, the whole thing came tumbling down. There was no need for a spiritual witness by faith to something that did not hold up to scrutiny.

The original history is not told today. It's a whole new version that has been whitewashed, sanitized for "faith promoting" to (as I was told) protect the delicate testimonies of the members. Even Joseph Smith Jr is given an artist rendition that looks more and more like he belongs on a Romance Novel cover! Milk before meat I was told. But, wait. I was an adult..... with all my teeth, I wanted the meat! I was not a child of God, I was an adult. And they can stop talking to me in that sweet, syrupy, soft baby voice! :-)

And I found it. The code to the emotional bond to the beliefs and spiritual witness was undone. Then it was all over. The giggling, began.Then the shock set in. Look what Joseph Smith Jr got away with! People are believing by spiritual witness by faith in a story that is impossible, too wild and crazy, too funny to believe. Running through the forest with those heavy ancient records? No way!
Joseph Smith Jr was a psychic, and other psychics were going to get those golden plates and expose him! That's great stuff! (Thanks to B H Roberts!)

But here again is the power of the spiritual witness. There are witnesses that claimed by "spiritual eye" they "saw" the golden plates and hefted them. That's where the power lies. The power of the spiritual witness! That is not to be questioned.

In my case, once the emotional bond/attachment to my subjective truth came undone, I was able to look at the whole scenario with objective eyes. The Mormon filter=spiritual witness by faith was not need. An objective approach, without the emotional bond of love, changed the whole picture. Now I knew what was wrong with the picture! Only through the power of the spiritual witness through faith and the acceptance of the traditional beliefs, commandments, covenants, rituals could it be believed. For me, that was not sufficient.

Now I understand what I believed, as an outsider. I have left the tribe, so to speak.
I can be more objective, see how others can and do believe, just as I did. But, I needed to do that from the outside looking in to really understand it.

I can recognize the value of the believers subjective truth that they believe is an absolute truth. That is the cure of religion, belief in God, and all that entails. Believers testify they know by faith and a spiritual witness it's an absolute truth.

It took me some time before I fully understood how I had become a believer and why, and the power and depth of that spiritual witness that is unwavering in the believers of all faiths/religions.

It's no longer necessary for me to believe a religious claim by a spiritual witness by faith. I understand that many others place great value in their faith, beliefs, spiritual witness in the claims of the LDS Church. And that is their right, just as it is my right, to take a different position, view, and see the world differently.

I can create my own new World View - and give myself permission to allow it to evolve. I can and did get myself "Un-Mormonized" which freed my mind to consider the Wide World of Ideas! And what fun that is!

I am no longer concerned about lining up my life in columns/terms of right and wrong, good and bad, of God, of Satan regarding my thoughts, attire, actions, time,money, beliefs, etc. as I did as a Mormon for decades.

Those beliefs served a purpose for a time, I learned from them, I am grateful for all of it. It was a stepping stone to learning more and living differently which results in much more joy and happiness, peace, and fun and laughter. It's a kind of freedom that I didn't know exited as a Mormon. I highly recommend it!

So, yes, I lost the spirit of the spiritual witness by faith in he claims of the LDS Church and I couldn't be happier!

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Posted by: Emma's Flaming Sword ( )
Date: September 29, 2010 10:47PM

The funny thing about the “spiritual witness” is it can just as easily testify that the church is not true. David Whitmer had God testify to him that the Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet.

I guess the moral of the story is a “spiritual witness” is confirmation of what ever we WANT to believe.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: September 30, 2010 11:43AM

Emma's Flaming Sword Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The funny thing about the “spiritual witness”
> is it can just as easily testify that the church
> is not true. David Whitmer had God testify to him
> that the Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet.
>
> I guess the moral of the story is a “spiritual
> witness” is confirmation of what ever we WANT to
> believe.


EXACTLY! That is why it's so powerful! And factual evidences don't count! :-)

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Posted by: Waana ( )
Date: September 30, 2010 01:25PM

To prove the BOM true you have to apply a test garnered from a book that you have yet to prove true.

OR

You have to beleive it is true before you can prove that it is true.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: September 30, 2010 08:49PM

believers that want you to believe something that won't hold up to scrutiny.

It takes courage to leave your tribe, to be confident and clear minded when faced with those that oppose you or demean you, or bother you in any way.

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