So I'm new to these forums. I'm still technically a member, but I've been going inactive over the last few months. I've been reading a lot of the posts and articles here and I'm surprised to discover how many of them I agree with or can relate to. Right now I feel like I can trust people here in regards to asking for advice instead of asking most of my friends who are Mormons.

My history - I apologize if this is long. Born in the covenant, went to BYU, served a brief mission until I was released due to depression (possible PTSD from being abused as a child), and have been going "downhill" in the church ever since. Shortly after my mission I returned to BYU where I was treated like crap because people couldn't understand how I was 19 yet had served a mission but had been medically released when there was nothing visibly wrong with me. Struggled with everything there because of the attitude, transferred up to BYU-Idaho to be with my sister, almost got engaged but had my heart ripped out because she wanted to spend more time Mormon partying, now I'm back home realizing that I've screwed my life up because I always did what I felt my religion and parents wanted. I'm in love with a girl who I've known since I was little, she's not a member. We've done some things that wouldn't get you excommunicated I guess but are still frowned upon.

I've never been happy in the church but I guess I've stayed out of fear. It really is a fear-going religion. I haven't gotten to far in depth as to whether the BOM is true or not, but I feel that the church destroys people in a way. I feel that I've been brainwashed to believe that I am a horrible bad person unworthy of God, Christ's, or anyone else's love because I've made some mistakes. I believe in God and I believe in Christ and I believe in doing good things and all but I realize my main motivation for that is because I feel like I have to do it for the church, not because I want to do it. I guess I feel torn between whether or not I can be a good person if I'm not Mormon.

And if I marry this girl, which we've talked about, I would want it to be forever. What do I do about that?

I dunno I'm just really confused and I don't feel like I can talk to anyone about it. Please help!

Lots of Christian groups actually believe you will be together in heaven. No worry about separate levels, either. Many don't believe in divorce. See in you can find a group that both your girlfriend and you are comfortable with. And REALLY commit to each other, that an organization.

You could check out Shawn McCraney's "Heart of the Matter".

http://hotm.tv/

He was Mormon, then turned to Biblical Christianity. Since you still believe in God and in Jesus, you might find some comfort there.

Best wishes to you.

I would like to see you give religion a rest for a while. Take a break. Enroll in a non-church school.

Just look at the language that you are using to describe your experience with Mormonism: words and phrases such as, "screwed my life up," "never been happy," fear, destroys, brainwashed, "horrible bad person," unworthy, etc. These are not happy words. These are not the words of someone who is spiritually fulfilled. The well where you have been trying to draw water is dry. You must slake your thirst elsewhere.

Of course you can be a good person without religion. Of course you can have a happy marriage and family life. You could also, in time, explore the possibility of affiliating yourself with a church with a more positive outlook (those churches are out there, I assure you.) Are you aware that virtually all Christians believe that they will be reunited with family and loved ones once again after they die?

Are you aware that there were several first vision accounts, all of them different? That competent Egyptologists have completely discredited the Book of Abraham? That most of the witnesses to the Book of Mormon later said that they only saw the golden plates with their "spiritual eyes?"

Please peruse the Mormon Think website if you have not done so already. There is a wealth of information there about the true history of the church -- the history that the church never shared with you.

http://mormonthink.com/

"I guess I feel torn between whether or not I can be a good person if I'm not Mormon."

there are a lot of people in this world and only a tiny fraction of them are mormons - but you have been living in the highest concentration of mormons (provo & rexburg) anywhere so your perception is skewed

get out of the morridor and i guarantee you will realize that there are lots of good people in the world

mormonism has nothing to do with goodness

My dad is completely brainwashed. He says hes never heard of the nauvoo expositor incident. He says even if it did happen it doesnt make js any less of a prophet. He then compared it to jesus whipping the money changers in the temple.

Also hes been a member for 40 years

Funny quoting a bible verse, a book the church believes has been corrupted

"And if I marry this girl, which we've talked about, I would want it to be forever. What do I do about that?"

I think people get caught up in the way that sounds. It's a really nice, romantic notion. However, we don't ACTUALLY know for a FACT what goes on after this life. If we continue on after we die, then don't you think God would want you to have what makes you happiest - and therefore your spouse and other loved ones? And if we don't actually continue on after this life, then what does it matter anyway? It's not like Mormonism has a monopoly on love and families.

Nor do they have a monopoly on happiness or joy

My hubby and I left the church recently. I really hope for eternal marriage, I want to be with my sweetheart forever. I want it to be true, but I know the church is false, so I can't believe their version of it.

If your girl and you are happy together, make a new life together. Make a life based in reality, not myth. Make a life based on what you believe is right and wrong, not what someone else tells you is right and wrong. Go on a journey with her, figuring out what you truly believe.

Whatever you do, stop feeling guilt as a result of the teachings of the church. If you can do that, it's like instant happiness.

You don't know if you can be a good person if you are not Mormon??? WHAT??? Were those people at BYU good people when they treated you like crap after your shortened mission? No need to worry about being good outside of the LDS faith. YOU will be a better person. YOU will like people of all faiths, and you will not isolate yourself. If your family freaks out, so be it. They are not living your life. YOU have to live it.

Go to some other churches and you will see what they have to offer and you will find peace there in most churches anyhow.You won't have boring services where people mouth "I know this church is true". They are happy to share JC will all who come thru their doors and don't need to be arrogant. They will not hound you to come back, call or knock on your door unless you want them to. They will respect your wishes. I suggest taking 6 months and visiting many churches and speaking to some of the pastors and on some Sundays don't do anything at all. Just enjoy nature or go on a picnic or to a movie.

This is all going to work out fine. The LDS people made you feel guilt that no one should have. Free yourself of the control they like to have on you....especially young people. And if you marry this girl, you can have a beautiful wedding ceremony where all your loved ones and friends can attend regardless of church affiliation.You will not have to dress up in weird ritual attire or try to attain someone's standard of "worthy". All are worthy. Forgiveness of sins is attainable and no one judges you. Can't want anything more than that.

My advice to chills31 is to leave and try to leave all the guilt behind. Hang in there and find your own way. It will take time and if you're like I was it was very hard for me to learn how to think for myself and figure out what it was that was best for me, not what my parents and siblings thought was best for me. It can still be a struggle for me but I am so glad that I left. I was not happy as a mormon.


As a side note, why does HowFirmaFoundation's testimony sound like every other mormon's testimony? I heard the same words and phrases over and over for years. It's like a canned speech and almost as if they are reading it from a script with no actual understanding or feeling. I used to do that too, when I talked about such things. However, I was honest enough that I would never come out and say that I knew the church was true because I didn't.

funny they took down Howfirmafoundations testimonkey and my testimonkey against the LDS church. I wonder how mine is offensive considering all the slander I have read on here?

I think when they delete drive-by testimonkeys, the rest of the replies will get deleted as well.

Mormonism is best suited for those who's life follows the straight and narrow path, with no glitches. The fact you were abused, makes you "different." This was a life event over which you had no control, and it gave you PTSD. I have PTSD also, and the cold, authoritarian Mormon church frightened me, and I allowed the leaders to bully me and my children. I always felt that something was wrong, that there was a dark cloud over my head. Looking back, I was an obedient Mormon, talented, successful, never really do anything "bad", but I was never perfect enough, never worthy of all my "advantages in life." When I resigned, I had almost no self-esteem, except at work, and alone with my children. I also had no confidence, and no identity other than my job. I was not a good mother, because I worked outside the home. I was divorced and single--ugh.

I'm not debating church doctrine here (which is all a hoax, except for the parts stolen from the Bible), but I'm giving you general advice for your future. You need to regain your equilibrium, to un-brainwash yourself, to find out the Truth, before you enter into a marriage with anyone. After you break free from Mormonism (in your heart) you will change for the better. There will be times you might question God, while you try to separate out your own beliefs from Mormon fakery. I believe that God is there, and has been all along, but that He doesn't take orders from Mormons. God does not need mortals to do silly rituals for dead people and to keep records for God. God's heaven is NOT run by Mormons. Yes, all families will be together there, if they want to be. (I don't particularly want to be with my abusive Mormon birth family)

You and your girlfriend are both young, and still have a lot of maturing to do, though you come across as being very mature already. IMO, you are too young to get married. You need to break free (in your heart and mind) and regain your self-image. No matter what your religious beliefs, you two can still have a happy marriage--unless one of you is Mormon. The mormon church is notorious for breaking up families. I know of many happy mixed marriages with Christian-non Christians, etc. Most normal people change religions several times in their lifetime.

I'm so glad that you have learned to not give up on someone, just because they are not Mormon. I gave up my childhood sweetheart, because he was Atheist, and my parents did not approve. Instead, I married a RM, that pretended to have all the good Mormon qualities a BYU gal wants in a husband. Yeah, we both were at BYU. I knew him only 8 months. He was a close relative of a prominent GA. He beat me.

The Mormon cult (yes, it is a cult) uses "The Family" as a weapon. Spouses often stay in the cult, because they are afraid their spouse might divorce them if they leave. Often children have to go through the motions of being a Mormon, if the TBM parents are helping them financially, putting them through school, providing a roof over their head, etc. A young person will convert to Mormonism, in order to marry the one they love in the temple. Congratulations for avoiding that trap!

Keep on studying and reading. You really don't have to read any "anti-Mormon" stuff at all. The facts are here for you, even though the cult tries to hide them. Science was my factual way out of Mormonism. Start with the DNA evidence. Good luck!

Oh, there's nothing wrong with a long engagement!

Hi there. You are. Very young. Take a break from church and relationships, seems to me like you need it. Continue giving all your effort to education. Start your search again in a couple of years. Just my advice.

I think you need to figure out if you really believe in Mormonism or not. If you still believe it but don't live it because it doesn't make you happy, you'll be stuck with guilt. Proving to yourself that it's not true will let you get past that guilt. Then once you've gotten rid of their list of rules, you have to figure out your own values. This is where you have to trust yourself - that you are a good person. It's OK to make mistakes - that's the best way to learn. Figure out what feels right to you, and do it.
The Mormon church isn't the only one that has eternal marriage - it's the only one that teaches you that you can't have eternal marriage unless you jump through all their hoops. If you think about it, the eternal family idea doesn't really make sense. What if someone in your family that you are sealed to, ends up in a different kingdom? Are you going to live with your parents, or your children? How about your aunts, uncles, grandparents? And if your brother isn't sealed to you, can he really stop being your brother? I'm actually still sealed to my ex-husband, even though we are legally divorced and both got married to other people. I have a son with my current husband. The Mormon church would say that he is sealed to my ex, instead of his own father. Do you see how crazy the whole thing is? I know that if there is any life after this, I'll be with my husband and kids, because love is stronger than any religion. Don't let them use family as blackmail against you.
Do the research and find out the truth. Pull out your scriptures, if you have the triple combination, and look at the pictures at the beginning of the Book of Abraham. Then do a quick Google search and see what the real translation of those facsimiles is. Check out how many women were sealed to Joseph Smith, how he used a peep stone to look for buried treasure, and see what you think his motivation was. Look at the DNA evidence for Lamanites. There is so much evidence, but you have to be willing to look at it. After that, it doesn't matter if you're technically still a member, because you'll know the truth.

Leave. You are currently in an abusive relationship with the church. Find the things that make you happy. Walking out the doors of the church knowing that I was never coming back was one of the most satisfying days of my life. I found other communities and I quickly realized that I was good not because I followed a set of arbitrary rules but because I was a good person. I then quickly realized that most people on the planet were good for the exact same reason. I would also recommend getting some good contraception and have guilt free sex before you get married, because it is really, really satisfying. Also drink coffee. It is really, really delicious.

"And if I marry this girl, which we've talked about, I would want it to be forever." I would recommend that you don't count on the word "forever" in regards to anything. Forever is a damn long time! You may not see it now, but I can promise without a doubt that you will grow and change as life progresses no matter how hard you try to stop it. So this girl may be your "forever" right now but maybe not when you're 40, 50, 60 years old? Some people meet "the one" when they are young and they truly do end up being THE ONE. I'm just gently trying to suggest that you live for the moment, enjoy what you have now, and don't project the thought of "eternity" on anything right now. If it happens, it happens but a lot of the time people grow apart and change. Not always, but sometimes. Rid yourself of the Mormon jargon if you can. I think it will help point you in the right direction later on....maybe not right now..but perhaps later on when you've learned and grown more as an individual. Good Luck!

Without a doubt it is a cult

Chills31 - I've been in this same type of spot that you described here: "I've never been happy in the church but I guess I've stayed out of fear. It really is a fear-going religion. I haven't gotten to far in depth as to whether the BOM is true or not, but I feel that the church destroys people in a way. I feel that I've been brainwashed to believe that I am a horrible bad person unworthy of God, Christ's, or anyone else's love because I've made some mistakes. I believe in God and I believe in Christ and I believe in doing good things and all but I realize my main motivation for that is because I feel like I have to do it for the church, not because I want to do it. I guess I feel torn between whether or not I can be a good person if I'm not Mormon."

The biggest thing that you need to realize is that you sound like you are already a really good person, "the church" contorts that and uses it for itself.

You'll end up feeling better about being a good person because you are doing it for your own reasons, not for the church. You'll be able to be more of who you really are without their restrictions, rules and commandments of stuff to do also.

When I was in the church it was confusing sometimes wondering if I did this & that right for the church. It was like I had to play a game and score enough points for God or lose.

You'll love being accountable to your own morals, and not somebody else's.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2012 10:41AM by smithscars.

LEAVE !

Also, there is no reason to marry a girl just because you had sex with her.
She knows this, since she is not a member.

Why not keep dating her or others until you have finished college.
There is no reason to rush into a marriage.


Go to a non-LDS shool and give yourself some time for the Mormon brainwashing to wear off.

You and I have just as much authority as anyone within the church to pronounce a marriage "forever". So that's exactly what I did. I know I have something special with my spouse.

We got his best friend ordained through the internet, and wrote our own vows leaving out "to death do us part"(Which mormons insist is in all other marriages. Lie!) and including "forevermore". Just as valid as any ritual in a white hotel lobby in silly costumes!
Plus we did it at sunset on a beach on top of a really large rock. I think it was much more meaningful than anything the old fogies have got.

You are already a much better person than those "good mormons" at BYU who were so ...understanding of your early discharge. If you lose the religion, you will only improve as you lose the fear based conditioning.

Don't be good out of fear, do good to be esteemed as good in everyone else's eyes. It's much more rewarding!

I am in my fifties and have really been struggling with this question lately. I've also been a memeber my whole life but my upbringing was not your typical mormor upbringing. I was raised with an alcholic dad and mormon mom.

The one thing that has always kept me going is that I try not to judge the doctrine of the church by the actions of the stupid self-righteous people in the church. They are imperfect. like all humans. I know its hard and I struggle constantly. I also like to drink ocaisonally and drink coffee so Ya that makes me feel guilty. I don't know what the answer is. I think is lies within me and I'm still trying to figure it out.

The doctrine of the church is racist, sexist and dead set against anything that is not the archaic heteronormative behavior that makes the most babies.
The leaders, who are not acting as men, push this agenda into law when and where they can.

I would argue that instead of the people making the church fallible, the church debases people, and yet there are still good people to be found there, despite all that organization can do.

When I was 18 I was married for 'eternity'. When I was 20 I divorced him. One of the better moves i've made.

Now I'm almost 60. For some crazy reason that i'll never know the church decided it was better for me to stay married for eternity to an abusive, drug addled drunk that I divorced when I was 20.


They don't think it's a good idea to let me be sealed to my husband that i've been married to for 20 years.

So, while you pine away for eternal marriage, be careful what you ask for. You will not be the one that gets to make your own decisions if anything should change. Nope, a bunch of old men who've never met me or my ex, in a city hundreds of miles from me made that decision. Lucky for me, their decision is meaningless.

All you can do is find someone who makes you happy and enjoy your time together, whatever that may be— 2 months or eternity.

I'd rather have 40 years of the good life than an eternity of guilt and servitude and boring sex.

Oh, Chills. My heart goes out to you, love.

When I left the mormon church, I didn't do it because I had discovered anything that constituted proof that it wasn't true (that came later). It was because after a decade of not feeling like I was good enough, like I was worthy, like I was loved by God, I finally realized that I was a good person.

That realization, and the sense of self-worth that came with it, was powerful enough to make me realize that the mormon concept of God was false, and that if it were true, he was a cruel and unforgiving tyrant who didn't deserve my worship or respect.

I think that you are a good person, too. If you really were prone to doing "bad things", a sense of obligation to the mormon church wouldn't be enough to stop you. Besides, when you say you believe in doing "good things", what does that mean? Obeying the WoW? Reading your scriptures? Praying? Paying tithing? Or just being a kind and respectful person? Is it possible that behaviors you consider bad are not actually bad at all, just taboo by mormon standards? Mormons do not have a monopoly on good behavior - far from it.

A church that makes you miserable can never be the "one true church". You need to find what makes YOU happy. You only get one life - don't waste it on a religion that makes you feel small and worthless.

*hugs*

The church, the supposed "plan of happiness" isn't living up to it's supposed claims.

Why is it that Utah has the highest rate of anti-depressant use in the nation, when it has what SHOULD be the happiest people on the planet here?

I think the reason why is that the LDS culture is one of conformity, perfectionism, judgement, fear, shame, obligation, and duty. It squashes individuality and joy. It sucks time, money, energy, and self-acceptance out of it members.

BTW, perfectionism and the expectation of perfect happiness(unrealistic expectations) create the perfect recipe for depression.

Get out. Live among non-members (go to school somewhere else), and see that they can be good and happy people. Don't live among Mormons, who will attempt to heap guilt and blame on you for leaving. I have a neice who left the church, and her doubts began when she lived with non-members and realized what good people they actually were. It completely shook her world view. You need to know that the church doesn't have a corner on good people

GTFO (Get the fuck out)

I too am considering leaving. I was brought up in a part memeber family. Dad was not a memeber mom was. Married a man with a similar background. He married me instead of going on a mission. We had 4 kids. All are adults now and only one is semi-active. I have always had a major problem with the people in the church. Still married and have tried to do the things that kept me active but have never, ever had close friends.

I have never had close friends in the church. Something wrong with me? Maybe.

Have had leadership callings and also periods of inactivity. Weird?

I just wonder why am I still trying? Its not like I'm a horrible person. I do like to drink ocasionally and also drink coffee sometimes. Am I trying to justify my behaviour because I may have a word of wisdom problem? don't know.

I just don't enjoy going to church and find the speakers at sacrament to be soooooo self righteous and condecending. Is it because of my guilt that I feel that way??? I don't know.

Where to start:

Let's start with if you marry this girl, you want to marry for for eternity. It is only for eternity if it is true. If it is fake, then it is not really for eternity.

Which leads to the next question - the question you really need to face head on - is the LDS church true. If it's true you need to stay involved; if not you need to get away. This means you need to do your research and make a firm decision one way or another. Obviously, on this site we have made a firm decision it is not true, but that it a decision you need to make for yourself. We can give you resources and ideas and answer questions, but you have to make that decision.

Which leads to the next issue - is the problem that you are broken or that the church is broken. The church teaches you that you are the one broken. I submit that it is the other way around. Here's why: If the church was good it would help you feel better and be better if you were broken. It would not make you feel worse. The dirty little secret of the LDS church is it only works for and includes the uber-faithful. It does a horrible job of doing as Christ says of healing the sick - it is only useful for the already well (and even for them it just makes them feel guilty).

So in chiasmus style summary - it is the church that is broken not you, you need to do your research and firmly determine whether or not the church is true or a fraud - there is no middle ground, and finally, if it is a fraud marrying for eternity is meaningless.