That sat on my same shelf as "well, it's okay that Nephi was learning things about Christ before it happened, because it's all the truth and it's all coming from God, so God can have them say whatever they want and it'll still be true because it's _going_ to happen." But yeah, it doens't make a ton of sense.
In Moses, the Ark guy (is his name too sacred?) is told to be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ who didn't exist and was called another name anyway.
I did a double-take on that one, too, but then thought that I must be ignorant. Maybe they appeared as future apostles. They had probably been chosen in the pre-existance, and beamed down from there, or from somewhere in the future. These were sacred temple secrets! It was supposed to be beyond my comprehension. I needed to go back again and again, for years, to really understand the holy temple teachings.... Headache and nausea.... What's Satan giving me order's for? I can't breathe through this veil. Why is the lady next to me asleep? Hey, there are my old BYU ski buddies, in the movie, playing angels in the Celestial Kingdom! They look so blonde and beatific! Certainly not type-cast! I must. NOT. laugh.
Actually, in the scene where God tells Jesus to go tell, they have to by definition be standing in the Celestial Kingdom since it's God's Kolobian palace.
What about when they go down and meet Adam & Eve who are hanging out with Satan.....again, and they all greet each other with "good morning". Adam had his memory erased at the veil, yet it's no biggy that suddenly there are these other dudes walking around?
The lessons in the temple just prove how the story doesn't add up.
When P, J & J ask Adam if he has the signs & tokens, Satan steps in and says "do you have any money?"
They say "we have sufficient for our needs."
Where are you using money? There are two people on earth and no stores to spend it at! Is it coins? People bartered for quite a while before a monetary system was constructed!
"you can buy anything in this world with money!"
If you want a rock, put it in your pocket. If you want to eat a rabbit, catch one. Adam & Eve don't even have a house or more than one outfit. They will let you go on credit for quite a while.
Absolutely: what the hell were they going to "spend money" on!? Starbucks? A nice pair of Ferragamo sandals at Bloomies? Pay back Adam for the 5 bucks they borrowed at the Dodgers game?
19th century assumptions that I can't believe they didn't think through very clearly in the context of the creation of the earth. That what script meetings are for...
I also find it amusing that when Elohim asks "Is man found on Earth?" I expected the reply "Whaddya mean!? We've been down there 4 or 5 times already makin' stuff--we know for a fact there's no frackin' man down there!" And then there's the afterthought of "Oh, let's make a woman--grab that hacksaw and get me a rib."
And of course everything is created on Earth to be great, but when Adam & Eve get kicked out, all of a sudden the outside world kinda sucks.
I tried to post a comment, but the site said a word was banned. So I changed every possible word and it still said I had used a banned word. Why doesn't this tell me which word???
But I thought they (i.e., those "in authority" who are asked) told me it was all "figurative insofar as the man & woman are concerned." To me, that "allowed" them to say anything they wanted.
Yes, that bothered me along with other things, like when Satan addressed the people. I'd think, whoever did this is trying to manipulate us into obeying, adn then the other voice in my head would say "the church is true" and I'd just try to chase my bad thoughts away. The temple ritual was one thing I didn't take literally, but I had heard so much about how revelation was received in the temple that I went to receive revelation for my life and even a confirmation that I was on the right path.
It also bothered me that they didn't acknowledge Eve. Nobody shook her hand and she was the only one sitting at the end of the movie, I thought that was very condescending.
Yes, that one was something. The first time I saw that I gulped. But there came a time when I did not go to the Temple for a very long time as in many many years... I realy didn't like the temple that much... hum... I wonder why;)... But one day I went back, I when it came to that part of the movie I just wanted to burst out laughing. By then to me that part seemed so 'corny'. I think that's the last time I went.
The temple ceremony was so confusing, because it blended Adam and Eve with the modern world, or a world much after they existed. I just figured it was all about symbology, but that didn't change the fact that it was ultra confusing. I figured it required a great deal of spirituality to discern the symbology, something that might not be understood until the next life or by a prophet or apostle.
The BOM also really confused me. I read it once before my mission, and then many times while on my mission. It did puzzle me a bit, although I dismissed it, was that the nephites had such a clear knowledge of christ, something that the OT prophets didn't have. I figured that because of their righteousness and isolation from the old world, that god decided to reveal it to them.
The fact remains, that Joseph Smith was greatly fixated on the new testament and getting out the "fullness" of the gospel that he wanted his version of scripture to have all the answers.
If he had waited to reveal the book of mormon until 1840, one can imagine just how different it would be. You wouldn't see criticism of polygamy or secret combinations, you'd have teachings of tri-theism instead of the trinity. You'd have temples and baptisms for the dead, eternal marriage etc.
The BOM is reflective of JS's belief system of 1829 and his understanding of the bible.
Back as a TBM, it always seemed pretty clear that the Adam character in the temple represented us not the literal Adam. So I took it as symbolic of our relationship with and need for prophets, not an indication that Peter, James & John actually visited Adam.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2012 09:45AM by bc.
The next time a new home teacher comes to your house unannounced, give them the first token of the aaronic priesthood, and ask him, "What is that?" Then explain you just wanted to make sure that he was really from the church.
At the time I figured it was symbolic and not literal, how would angels without bodies give the tokens of the priesthood?? JS taught that an unresurrected angel would decline a handshake, a demon would fake it and you would feel nothing but air while a resurrected angel like Moroni, or Gabriel, et al. would return the grip and you would feel their corporeal form. All BS, but following their logic, the presence of P, J, J in the endowment is purely symbolic.
The temple ceremony is probably our greatest illustration of Joseph's tendency to blend the OT, NT, and his own surrounding cultural influences into one big, inexplicable mess.
Like SMR said, this is why nobody is supposed to talk about any of this outside of the temple. It's also why there's nobody inside the temple to answer your questions. Did you ever go in the celestial room and have someone say "does anyone have any questions?" Never!
Can you imagine a GD class that's discussing the temple movie? It would be like being in the twilight zone. Everyone would have their twisted version they've thought up to make that nonsense story work. They would all be saying the HG told them so.
Can you imagine someone getting up in testimony meeting and talking about the washing and anointing before 1990? Temple attendance would have crashed and burned. Not only did the king have no clothes, but you didn't either.
The warm fuzzy fireside talks of Adam and satan working out how things were going to be. How many women felt alarmed because they thought satan was way better looking than Adam? Yeah who knew Satan was literally hot?
Yep, for the church, silence has truly been golden.
I always assumed that these guys were chosen spirits who had lived in the "outside-of-time" realm of the other side of the veil, but just had made their earthly appearance in the NT. I rather believed that they existed forever, and walked onto the earthly stage at the time the Big Guy gave them their cue. Funny the things we assume when under the spell of a delusion...