A ditto to Man in Black's story.

Recently my (nevermo) Fiancé and I were at our local grocery store, which we shop at generally once or twice a week. One of the sackers there has been a member of the church for about 3 years now and he clearly isn't 100% there. He's about 25 and while he isn't completely mentally handicap, you can tell there is just a little something 'off' there. It's a completely different topic, but I find it completely deplorable that missionaries would even teach people like him, not because he can't handle it, but he is more impressionable than others. They spent a while teaching him and at first he would bare his testimony that he believed the both the Catholic church and Mormon church are true. The Bish took him into his office and further brain washed him until he now understands what TSCC wants him to say when he gets up to speak.

Well when we go to the grocery store he spots us and he makes dang sure that he is our sacker and takes us to our car. He will dismiss other sackers who are next up in line to sack just so he can take me. He always talks about church and whats going on in the student ward which I used to attend with him. So as to avoid any uncomfortable conversation I've always just played along with his conversation and don't mention that I no longer attend or believe.

This particular trip to the store, my Fiancé and I decided we would pick up a nice bottle of wine to drink with dinner that night. When we get to the checkout he's not there, but lo and behold he runs up and tells the sacker that is there that he'll take us. The wine is the first thing the checker scanned and was slid down the line to our sacker. He picks up the bottle and studies it (as opposed to just putting it in the sack like he should) and finally says, "So what's the wine for tonight?" I decided that I'm done pretending with him (or anyone else) and just said, "It's for drinking!" He looked at me a bit dumbfounded and repeats my words "for drinking" but it was more of a question. Well more items come down the line so he sacks it and keeps going.

I offered to carry the groceries out myself but he insisted that he would. As we were walking out he says, "So how is church going for you?"
I responded, "I haven't been in a while."
"What ward are you in" he quickly fired back.
"I'm not really sure. I didn't really look into it after I moved."

He then launched into how he was still in the student ward we met in and how things were going great. We got to my car and I said thanks and sent him on his way.


I knew eventually he and I would have this conversation, but I'm really hoping that when I go back he lets it go. I will not take being bugged about religion at my grocery store. I'm thinking I'm just going to bring a business card with www.mormonthink.com written on it and give it to him next time. I'm sure he'd just immediately report it back to the bishop who would then give a rousing sermon about the dangers of the internet in the following sacrament meeting.

If he persists I would consider reporting him to the manager, but he really needs this job. Again, he isn't all there and has no other prospects for work so I don't want him to get fired, but I also won't tolerate anyone giving me a hard time about my choices. This is especially true because I don't live in Utah so 99% of everybody else working at the store wouldn't ever give a second thought to me buying wine, coffee or any other thing that JS decided was bad.

Bottom line I don't want him to get fired, but also don't want to be harassed if I buy wine.

It is a mark of how deeply the cult imprints its negativity on us that we feel the way you felt in that store: it sounds like you were very uncomfortable.

IMHO, you don't need to report the poor guy to the store manager. All you need to do is say: "look, I left the church because I disagree with the way they do things and I don't believe it, and so I'm not interested in having any further conversations about it, OK?"

Then change the topic. I'm sure he will understand what you mean.

Best regards.

xyz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


"Then change the topic. I'm sure he will understand
what you mean."


me: I'm Not So Sure...

Since I have a slightly mentally disabled brother--and a lot of his social support comes from the LDS church members. He lives in the house he was raised in. My parents died 3-1/2 years ago--both within 2 months.

When they are slightly mentally disabled--it is a lot different than very mentally disabled. If my brother doesn't have a job, his life is very difficult. I can say that many people who are "just a little off" don't understand many of the social "norms."

I'd handle it very carefully. I know my brother does things that are inappropriate at times socially--and whether or not the church isn't what it says it is--the mormons have been very good to my brother. He asks me questions like you were asked by this guy all the time--most of his siblings are outside the church.

He's just not all there. I'd just ask him not to talk about the church any more. He'd probably listen.

if he's very impressionable, tell him you drink wine because it's proven to help you live healthier and longer and no church doctrine is going to keep you from being as healthy as you can be LOL (same goes for coffee actually)

Let me add, he's about 99% all there, but that 1% is probably the one that handles social issues and understanding when it's appropriate to do certain things.

When I was still attending, he would get up every testimony meeting and talk for about 10 minutes about tennis. He'd give the TV schedule for the big matches and talk about his own matches. He was constantly reprimanded by it from the bishop but he seemed to like doing it anyway. He'd get a little deviant smile on his face when he'd bring up tennis as if he knew it was wrong but wanted to tell us all anyway.

Anyway, just wanted to say that he's nearly all there, but there's something off.

There is one of those in every ward in my experience. It's especially annoying when they go up and give their testimony last just when time has run out, and then they go on and on and on about useless crap like that.

That's why I shortened the Fast & Testimony name to F'in Testimony meeting. I used that terminology even as a TBM.

I would just be honest with him. Tell him that you're not going to church anymore because you disagree with the church about a number of things, and that you're happy with your current status. Ask him if he can respect that, and not harass you about not going.

He might be surprisingly okay with that (given his wandering church talks, lol.)

Doesn't sound like to me he was giving you a hard time...Sounds like he was asking questions but no critical follow up remarks. Give the guy a break. Lots of folks with disabilities are coached on how to start and carry on conversations.Could be the guy is just excited to see someone he knows and can talk to.The church seems to be something you have in common. I think it is fine to tell him you don't go to church anymore.

Next time he comes over, I would greet him by name and ask how he is doing. Ask about his job or anything else you might know about him that doesn't invovle the church-favorite football team etc. -try taking control of the conversation. Sometimes it is good to get outside our desires to make someones day a bit better...It would probably make him feel good to be acknowledged and have someone initiate with him.

I admit, having a son with a disability who will soon (hopefully) be entering the work force, probably makes me a bit sensitive to the issue.

I agree with ladybug. This guy asked about the wine because he was surprised to see you buying it, but he didn't make any negative remarks about it (unlike the addiction cracks in MiB's story on the other thread.) He asked which ward you go to and told you which one he attends. He didn't tell you that you should go back when you said you hadn't been there in a while. I think this sounds pretty reasonable for someone who is just trying to make conversation. I think you should just steer the conversation to other topics that make you less uncomfortable.

For someone who is a little off and is probably lucky to have a job in this economy it seems harsh to think of reporting him and maybe causing him to lose what he has. What he asked you doesn't seem to warrant that kind of penalty. But then all my life I have always had a real soft spot for the underdog.

I know I get churned up more often than I like about the overbearing quality of mormons. I have a quote I always read before I have to have any interaction.

“The art of being wise is knowing what to overlook.” -William James

I wouldn't report him unless it gets really bad and only after you have talked to him privately. He has problems and needs the job. This isn't the same as a smart alec hishg school kid going on about-GASP-coffee

A while back, I swear a poster had almost the exact same experience!

;o)

It just happened this week. New post

I student teach special ed right now and I deal with this kind of stuff all the time. Social norms are not understood by a lot of people across a wide spectrum. Some more so than others.

I would be patient with the situation and try to speak very clearly about what is "right" and "not right" to talk about. Maybe start off by giving him a few suggestions of what you would like to talk about next time you see him, his friends, sports, what the weather is like, how long he is working that day, what he ate for lunch.
Then say that you are a friend of his, but that you never wants to talk about church things because it is something that you only want to discuss if you are at the church with him in the building. Never outside of church.

Next time he brings it up you can remind him of the rule you taught him about only talking about church inside the church building. He will wait for you to show up at church again someday....

I don't know what his problem was, but he is what used to be called simple - nice fellow, but always talked too loud, tried to do the proper thing, lived with his mother. I stopped attending the local ELCA church, too much nepotism of a rather nasty kind (preacher's wife - ehhcch.) I got so I tried to avoid him, but he kept after me, practically tailing me in the grocery store. I stopped going to the store he worked at altogether to avoid him, but discovered he shopped at the same store I usually did - and he'd tail me there, trying to talk about church and why he didn't see me there anymore in his loud voice. I didn't want to share such sensitive issues with him - not his business, and he wouldn't have been capable of understanding, plus he'd go blabbing it all over in that small town. I finally asked him to not bring up church at all, as it made me uncomfortable. I had to remind him of this a few times, and he seemed hurt, but eventually he got it, and got over it. Then I moved away. Yay!

There was a ward downtown which was near a mental facility. I've no idea why they would teach there either, but the missionaries went there a lot. So that ward ended up with these poor souls, who would say the darndest things on Fast and Testimony Sunday.

I remember one guy suddenly looking at everyone with a deliberate evil expression on his face saying, "Sometimes I'd like to kill someone." Oh boy. I'm sure the Bishop thanked the missionaries on that day.

And, "No one should talk about religion when they're getting paid to do a job like yours at this store."

Just tell him you're no longer Mormon, or you've stopped going to church or whatever words you want to use, and you don't want to talk about church.

My father told the story about a cafeteria which would have his lunch waiting (always the same) if they saw him coming around the corner so when he wanted something different he went a different way and to a different place to eat. I always thought this was rather funny. Of course this was long before I was born. Anyway, you can either intentionally get wine every time to make a point or get the wine elsewhere and leave him to think he did you a favor.

Yeah I'd probably let that one slide. I still think maybe I should have let it just go and the guy I spoke of was sharp-minded and witty to a fault. Vindictive isn't really my style. Special needs though? OK. That actually sometimes is carte blanche for crossing social boundaries. I have family members who are special needs in this way. They get a pass. I love them no matter what they say or do. They don't know any better.

Lots of special needs adults hold jobs like that one. They are among the few who have an excuse to believe the pig-swill doctrine of the so-called church. Don't attempt undoctrination. It should be the responsibility of his guardian, if he has one, to handle all that.

We have "slightly" special adults in our church too. They get fed at the potlucks, get leads on jobs that fall in their skill range, and get fellowship that they couldn't achieve except in a charitable environment. It's part of the social safety net.

"What's the wine for?"
"I'm going to use it the way Jesus used it."
"What?
"Yeah, Jesus and Joseph Smith drank wine and so will I..."