Recovery Board
: RfM
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2012 11:21PM by steve benson.
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
I figure most people here have given up their morgish authority figures and good riddance, right? But even as a skeptic, I do look for people to admire and respect and take seriously, even when I a disagree with them. Because I don't pretend to be an expert on anything, I like to know who I think of as people to take seriously and who know what they are talking about.
So if you had to pick 5-10 people you think of as authorities (with a very small 'a' and no blind obedience necessary), who would they be? If we call them heroes instead, does that change the list? I'm thinking about more public people here, not so much individuals that only we would know personally.
In no particular order:
Chris Hedges. I admire his courageous, his experience, his humanity. Even when I disagree with him he makes me question myself and my beliefs, which is always a good thing.
E.O. Wilson. His ideas and books had a huge impact on me as I left my morgish ignorance and discovered the world through more empirical eyes. His genuine love of the real living world (biophilia, I love this concept) is infectious and moving. I just heard him speak again and he is as fiesty and courageous as ever.
Naomi Klein. The body of her work really opened my eyes and inspired me to not be a fool.
Joe Bageant. Before he died, his blog was one of my favorites. A lot of courage and humanity, I envied the people who actually knew him in real life.
Adam Curtis. His documentaries are like little psychedelic masterpieces, he puts things together in a way that few others do nearly so well. I love his stuff, my mind was boggled.
Morris Berman. His books on the impact of the Englightenment on our culture/spirituality and on the state of our current culture of decline hit me like bullets. I reread them regularly to stretch my neurons. He is a real cassandra for our times, and funny to boot.
Stephen Batchelor. My buddhist grandmother introduced me to him decades ago at a time when I needed some serious meditational therapy. His own spiritual journey and what he shares about what he has learned really influenced me at key times in my life.
Matt Taibbi. When I want to read about the nightmare of our current political/economic situation, he's the guy I read.
Glenn Greenwald. Ditto. He was brave when few others were.
Derrick Jensen. The scary green prophet. I don't always agree with him, but I always take what he says seriously enough to struggle with it. His book A Language Older Than Words should be read by every exmo.
I have to include a few particularly relevant heroes.
Steve Benson. His grandfather ET blessed me as an infant on one of his trips to Europe. My parents worshipped the man, I have the transcription of that blessing which my dad printed out on high quality paper so it could be taken out and perused often. Unfortunately for them, part of that blessing included a 'curious mind', and well, that sent me on my path to hell:) Steve's cartoons were favorites in my house, it was the only way my rigid parents could ever allow themselves to laugh at all the crazy mormon stuff that should have driven them insane or to exit. I lived in AZ during the Mecham nightmare in a fascist ward of wingnuts, and Steve's courage in taking that idiot on in public made him a hero to me and a few of the other young RM's stuck in that ward. When I discovered Steve had left the morg and began reading his long and wonderful articles years ago, I created a folder where I bookmarked everything for further use one day (I hoped). I got to make use of that folder with a young relative who was ready to read all that info and found his way out of the cult. I know I'm not the only one here who thinks Steve is a true hero.
Michael Quinn. Without his work, my own exit would have been longer and even more difficult than it was. His courage in writing what he did saved me. I was lucky enough to know him and his son in person during the very difficult time when I began my exit from the morg and felt so lost and afraid of what might come next.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2012 01:14PM by popolvuh.
So if you had to pick 5-10 people you think of as authorities (with a very small 'a' and no blind obedience necessary), who would they be? If we call them heroes instead, does that change the list? I'm thinking about more public people here, not so much individuals that only we would know personally.
In no particular order:
Chris Hedges. I admire his courageous, his experience, his humanity. Even when I disagree with him he makes me question myself and my beliefs, which is always a good thing.
E.O. Wilson. His ideas and books had a huge impact on me as I left my morgish ignorance and discovered the world through more empirical eyes. His genuine love of the real living world (biophilia, I love this concept) is infectious and moving. I just heard him speak again and he is as fiesty and courageous as ever.
Naomi Klein. The body of her work really opened my eyes and inspired me to not be a fool.
Joe Bageant. Before he died, his blog was one of my favorites. A lot of courage and humanity, I envied the people who actually knew him in real life.
Adam Curtis. His documentaries are like little psychedelic masterpieces, he puts things together in a way that few others do nearly so well. I love his stuff, my mind was boggled.
Morris Berman. His books on the impact of the Englightenment on our culture/spirituality and on the state of our current culture of decline hit me like bullets. I reread them regularly to stretch my neurons. He is a real cassandra for our times, and funny to boot.
Stephen Batchelor. My buddhist grandmother introduced me to him decades ago at a time when I needed some serious meditational therapy. His own spiritual journey and what he shares about what he has learned really influenced me at key times in my life.
Matt Taibbi. When I want to read about the nightmare of our current political/economic situation, he's the guy I read.
Glenn Greenwald. Ditto. He was brave when few others were.
Derrick Jensen. The scary green prophet. I don't always agree with him, but I always take what he says seriously enough to struggle with it. His book A Language Older Than Words should be read by every exmo.
I have to include a few particularly relevant heroes.
Steve Benson. His grandfather ET blessed me as an infant on one of his trips to Europe. My parents worshipped the man, I have the transcription of that blessing which my dad printed out on high quality paper so it could be taken out and perused often. Unfortunately for them, part of that blessing included a 'curious mind', and well, that sent me on my path to hell:) Steve's cartoons were favorites in my house, it was the only way my rigid parents could ever allow themselves to laugh at all the crazy mormon stuff that should have driven them insane or to exit. I lived in AZ during the Mecham nightmare in a fascist ward of wingnuts, and Steve's courage in taking that idiot on in public made him a hero to me and a few of the other young RM's stuck in that ward. When I discovered Steve had left the morg and began reading his long and wonderful articles years ago, I created a folder where I bookmarked everything for further use one day (I hoped). I got to make use of that folder with a young relative who was ready to read all that info and found his way out of the cult. I know I'm not the only one here who thinks Steve is a true hero.
Michael Quinn. Without his work, my own exit would have been longer and even more difficult than it was. His courage in writing what he did saved me. I was lucky enough to know him and his son in person during the very difficult time when I began my exit from the morg and felt so lost and afraid of what might come next.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2012 01:14PM by popolvuh.
Richard Dawkins
Daniel Dennett
Sam Harris
Christopher Hitchens
3 of the 4 are biologists. I have a biology education so they speak my language.
I also like Carl Sagan, were he alive when the term "4 Horsemen" was coined I'm sure it would have been The 5 Horsemen.
I'm a bit iffy on the comedians Bill Maher and Ricky Gervais, they're funny but they keep saying things that are too insensitive.
Daniel Dennett
Sam Harris
Christopher Hitchens
3 of the 4 are biologists. I have a biology education so they speak my language.
I also like Carl Sagan, were he alive when the term "4 Horsemen" was coined I'm sure it would have been The 5 Horsemen.
I'm a bit iffy on the comedians Bill Maher and Ricky Gervais, they're funny but they keep saying things that are too insensitive.
These, among others such as Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Salman Rushdi.
Comedians! I love Bill Burr, Louie C.K., Eddie Izzard, Jim Jeffries and tons of others that TBMs would never watch.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2012 10:17PM by rationalguy.
Comedians! I love Bill Burr, Louie C.K., Eddie Izzard, Jim Jeffries and tons of others that TBMs would never watch.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2012 10:17PM by rationalguy.
Hmm, I am the authority of my life. I look up to Google and all the things I can learn through it. I should join the church of Google, for it answers all my prayers for knowledge.
I subscribe to no philosophy, don't make me out to be a buddhist or whatever...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2012 04:34PM by WinksWinks.
I subscribe to no philosophy, don't make me out to be a buddhist or whatever...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2012 04:34PM by WinksWinks.
+1 to self enlightenment!
ballzac Wrote:
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> +1 to self enlightenment!
+++
OM namah Shivayah
-------------------------------------------------------
> +1 to self enlightenment!
+++
OM namah Shivayah
Bill Hicks is easily my #1.
John Lennon
Timothy Leary
Louis C.K.
And for the sake of bringing it all back to the ground a little bit more, my Dad. He's literally the smartest man I know IRL, it kinda freaks me out sometimes. (He left the church when I was 10 and we didn't grow up together, so this has been an interesting fact to discover.)
-V
John Lennon
Timothy Leary
Louis C.K.
And for the sake of bringing it all back to the ground a little bit more, my Dad. He's literally the smartest man I know IRL, it kinda freaks me out sometimes. (He left the church when I was 10 and we didn't grow up together, so this has been an interesting fact to discover.)
-V
I can't possibly name all the people I respect and look up to!
Not ALL, that's way too hard. Just a few, it makes you pick and choose just a bit, which is part of why (I hoped) it might be interesting:)
something similar). That is what my initial thought was when I read the OP.
I may respect some people like Richard Packham and Steve Benson--but I answer to no one but myself. I answered to authority figures long enough.
I may respect some people like Richard Packham and Steve Benson--but I answer to no one but myself. I answered to authority figures long enough.
my yoga mat
it takes me to a far more spiritual place
keeps me in tune with my body my mind and where i am going
it takes me to a far more spiritual place
keeps me in tune with my body my mind and where i am going
My meditation blanket. Where I sit the body when I go inside.
Supreme guru within
Kundalini Shakti Ma
Shiva
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2012 02:37PM by hello.
Supreme guru within
Kundalini Shakti Ma
Shiva
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2012 02:37PM by hello.
I don't have any authorities. There are certain authors I like, and I tend to read their books. But I don't accept everything they say because they are authorities. In fact, I tend to scrutinize even more the people I like to read. I try to stay away from the Appeal to Authority fallacy.
Does this list have to focus people? Because if not, I'd also have to list psilocybin. xD
-V
-V
Awesome
I don't have authorities except for the people or rules I have agreed to support as having authority over me in order to maintain the kind of society I support.
This includes policemen and the laws. I support them because I can be a part of the process that makes the rules.
As for authorities on topics, I'd prefer to call them mentors. No one is an authority about everything. Once I scratch the surface of someone I admire, I find there is always something with which I disagree. So, I have no gurus or authority figures like I did as a believer.
I admire the knowledge of many. My question to them is, "Where can I find that to verify and see if I come to the same conclusion?"
I don't like it when something or someone proclaims itself as an authority based on cult of personality. Examples are prophets and the Bible (believe this because I say so).
I'm very comfortable now with not having answers to many things. Many humans like having a daddy who knows best. I don't need an authority daddy.
This includes policemen and the laws. I support them because I can be a part of the process that makes the rules.
As for authorities on topics, I'd prefer to call them mentors. No one is an authority about everything. Once I scratch the surface of someone I admire, I find there is always something with which I disagree. So, I have no gurus or authority figures like I did as a believer.
I admire the knowledge of many. My question to them is, "Where can I find that to verify and see if I come to the same conclusion?"
I don't like it when something or someone proclaims itself as an authority based on cult of personality. Examples are prophets and the Bible (believe this because I say so).
I'm very comfortable now with not having answers to many things. Many humans like having a daddy who knows best. I don't need an authority daddy.
+1, better put than I did, I agree with all you wrote.
No one holds authority over me. Except for my wife and the police. Im doomed.
The only authority over me is that which comes at gunpoint--government, military and police.
There are many people I admire, but none of them are authoritarian. Virtually all are thinkers and iconoclasts:
Emily Dickenson, Eddie Poe, Mark Twain, Kurt Vonnegut, e.e. Cummings, Jean Cocteau, Vincent Van Gogh, et al.
There are many people I admire, but none of them are authoritarian. Virtually all are thinkers and iconoclasts:
Emily Dickenson, Eddie Poe, Mark Twain, Kurt Vonnegut, e.e. Cummings, Jean Cocteau, Vincent Van Gogh, et al.
Excellent question, popolvuh.
One of the very pronounced consequences of leaving LDSinc behind is that we are faced with the question of whom to trust and why. And like you, even as a skeptic, I could scarcely set myself up as an expert on anything. So, I have authorities in which I consult.
For courage, humanity and morality I cannot top your own first listed choice, Chris Hedges. His 2003 commencement address at Rockford College, for example, is the epitome of courage in action and exemplifies America at her best. He has been my authority on a few other things besides for years.
For constitutional discernment on one of my prime concerns, Liberty, I recognize Glenn Greenwald, Jonathan Turley (when he's allowed to speak truthfully), and Bruce Fein as authorities. I like others as well but these three I take authoritatively. (I like James Bovard for comic relief.)
For taste I have too many authorities to list, but I find that for literary taste specifically I cannot do better than Harold Bloom, Walter Pater and Samuel Johnson. (It is only with age, experience and at least two reading of The Lives of the Poets that I have allowed Johnson as an authority.)
For a cultural and intellectual appreciation of the last 500 years of Western Life I go straight to Jacques Barzun as an authority. If I find myself disagreeing with him I am hard pressed to understand why and exactly how. This is true for all my authorities.
On Human personality and potential Shakespeare continues to tyrannize authoritatively over me.
On writing "The Elements of Style" has authoritatively tyrannized over me almost as much as Shakespeare, but I've learned to ignore it.
I could go on…
One thing I absolutely do not recognize as authoritative per se is the political and legal apparatus of my country, province and municipality, nor do I take the armed police force hired to enforce their "authority" as an authority. I will go to my grave believing that they work for me and for us, and so it is We that are authorities over them. God forbid the day that is forgotten.
Human
One of the very pronounced consequences of leaving LDSinc behind is that we are faced with the question of whom to trust and why. And like you, even as a skeptic, I could scarcely set myself up as an expert on anything. So, I have authorities in which I consult.
For courage, humanity and morality I cannot top your own first listed choice, Chris Hedges. His 2003 commencement address at Rockford College, for example, is the epitome of courage in action and exemplifies America at her best. He has been my authority on a few other things besides for years.
For constitutional discernment on one of my prime concerns, Liberty, I recognize Glenn Greenwald, Jonathan Turley (when he's allowed to speak truthfully), and Bruce Fein as authorities. I like others as well but these three I take authoritatively. (I like James Bovard for comic relief.)
For taste I have too many authorities to list, but I find that for literary taste specifically I cannot do better than Harold Bloom, Walter Pater and Samuel Johnson. (It is only with age, experience and at least two reading of The Lives of the Poets that I have allowed Johnson as an authority.)
For a cultural and intellectual appreciation of the last 500 years of Western Life I go straight to Jacques Barzun as an authority. If I find myself disagreeing with him I am hard pressed to understand why and exactly how. This is true for all my authorities.
On Human personality and potential Shakespeare continues to tyrannize authoritatively over me.
On writing "The Elements of Style" has authoritatively tyrannized over me almost as much as Shakespeare, but I've learned to ignore it.
I could go on…
One thing I absolutely do not recognize as authoritative per se is the political and legal apparatus of my country, province and municipality, nor do I take the armed police force hired to enforce their "authority" as an authority. I will go to my grave believing that they work for me and for us, and so it is We that are authorities over them. God forbid the day that is forgotten.
Human
This is very personal to me, but I will expound.
When it comes to a person(s) of authority I must admit there are very few.
I watch the stars at night, the sun during the day and meditate at least 30 minutes before I leave the house. Sometimes meditation will go for several hours, the longer the better.
I follow the inner guidance and instructions from within.
Answers come to me crystal clear like never before. My higher self is in control of my life and I couldn't be happier. I absolutely crave the peace it brings me.
Religions of any kind are false and I will not be led down this path again. So, I spend my time in quiet prayer and listen to spirit. Without sounding egotistical or self serving I have found my solution to everything by listening to myself.
Some call it Christ Consciousness.
I have no desire to watch the news, politics, world affairs or be apart of the system based on fear.
All of us have been living a big lie and I will not propagate this lie any longer. I am now awake.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2012 11:11PM by sistertwister.
When it comes to a person(s) of authority I must admit there are very few.
I watch the stars at night, the sun during the day and meditate at least 30 minutes before I leave the house. Sometimes meditation will go for several hours, the longer the better.
I follow the inner guidance and instructions from within.
Answers come to me crystal clear like never before. My higher self is in control of my life and I couldn't be happier. I absolutely crave the peace it brings me.
Religions of any kind are false and I will not be led down this path again. So, I spend my time in quiet prayer and listen to spirit. Without sounding egotistical or self serving I have found my solution to everything by listening to myself.
Some call it Christ Consciousness.
I have no desire to watch the news, politics, world affairs or be apart of the system based on fear.
All of us have been living a big lie and I will not propagate this lie any longer. I am now awake.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2012 11:11PM by sistertwister.
Yea!!
thingsithink Wrote:
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> Yea!!
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> Yea!!
Ug!
I see the word 'authorities' and I just think 'fuck authority!' I can not even think past the word.
Signed,
spaghetti oh (age 44 going on 2)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2012 06:31PM by Susan I/S.
I see the word 'authorities' and I just think 'fuck authority!' I can not even think past the word.
Signed,
spaghetti oh (age 44 going on 2)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2012 06:31PM by Susan I/S.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2012 11:21PM by steve benson.
I thought about this all day.
I don't think I have any authorities. I mean, I respect the law and the enforcers of the law.
I have people that I look up to and see as experts in certain fields. I want to emulate some of them. But I don't give them any power over me and have no problem questioning their moves.
I don't think I have any authorities. I mean, I respect the law and the enforcers of the law.
I have people that I look up to and see as experts in certain fields. I want to emulate some of them. But I don't give them any power over me and have no problem questioning their moves.
The little voice(s) in my head...and memories of how my Dad tuaght me to comport myself.
Ron Burr
Ron Burr