Okay, I am pretty ticked off at the church right now. My wife (twojedis) mentioned in an earlier thread that our Bishop was over-hearing lots of "curious conversations or connecting some dots that were not true" about why we weren't attending church anymore. So he "took the initiative to make sure that [he] kept the information correct and accurrate and popped into Relief Society and Priesthood a brief moment just to let people know the truth of what had happened [to us] and that [we] were fine, and good, and happy, and healthy, and still [their] friends, and that [they] should include us and not ostracize us". He went on to mention that he did this to "control the information". What he did not mention in his voicemail, we heard from another source, was that he also recommended that they not discuss gospel related topics with us, that "we didn't want this".

This announcement was 8 days ago and I just found out from a very good friend at work who is in a completely different stake. He heard about it from someone in my stake that he works with, who I also work with. I asked who that was and he refused to tell me. So in less than 8 days, my Bishops announcement not only made it to folks outside the Ward, but outside the stake and is now spreading to all my LDS colleagues at work, of which there are MANY!! So my work relationships are all impacted.

So, I am taking my gloves off. First item of business is to change my screen name. I am no longer "stuckinzion". I have decided to change my name to "sithlord". This is obviously in reference to "Star Wars" and was the nickname my wonderful wife cristened upon me before she converted over to the "Dark Side" herself. She gave me that name as a way of making lite of our differences so that we were able to joke about it. She was never serious about me being "evil".

I have decided that my second item of business is to hit back hard in the limited means that TBM's will understand. My stand with TBM's is now:

1. That I love my TBM friends and want to maintain their relationships.
2. That I have some doctrinal, historical, and scientific concerns about the church.
3. That I want more than anything to come back into the fold.
4. That I would appreciate any help bringing me back.

That will open the door for some that the Bishop (and I'm sure the SP) closed on me.

I know that over time, I will tire of the attempts, but I stand by D&C 18: 15-16 "...save it be one soul unto me..." So I'll work at this until I get tired of it and at the very least we'll have lots of interesting posts to put on here.

I'm also thinking of sending out a summary of our issues so our TBM friends can really understand why we left, but I think this will lead to excommunication (although the Bishop's handbook states that members must be warned about this behavior, and if the member continues then excommunication becomes an option). So I can do this once and get away with it.

Any recommendations and/or advice here is appreciated. What I am looking for is the best way to have a long term influence on our TBM friends and family and not allienate them or create too much conflict.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2012 01:55PM by sithlord.

My hero!!

I think he means he'd love back in if it were true, but knowing there's not a chance in hell because it's not true. He'd love for some well meaning TBM to try to convince him, though.

Exactly. Thanks for the clarification sweetie!

just be yourself. You can't expect to influence anyone unfortunately. You are going to come out of this as the bad guy whether you want to or not. I KNOW you're not the bad guy but there will always be other people that do. It's not right, but yet there it is. You are SO lucky to have a supportive wife though. You'll just have to keep thinking about that fact when things go wonky.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2012 02:07PM by Tupperwhere.

I'd be tempted to go to Pristhood and RS and make my own announcement!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2012 03:14PM by ladybug.

Or better yet stand up in fast and testimony meeting and make my own announcement. Trust me, I have acted that one out more than once in my head. I would be careful about what I said if I did, emphasizing my love and respect for everyone there. But clarifying why we left. Still thinking about it...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2012 06:32PM by sithlord.

OMG, I think that's every exmo's and closet exmo's fantasy...

Even though I left less than a year ago, I don't feel I can give you any advice.

Your situation is a bit different than mine. I know people are gossiping like crazy, but I don't feel there's much I can do about it. Pretty soon they will move on to the next apostates.

I will watch your posts with great interest. We are friends with a very staunch family that is getting ready to leave. Your experiences may be a great help to them. They have been in their ward for about 20 years. In that time he's been a bish. twice. His wife is currently the RSP. They are in for a rough ride.

It's maddening when people decide for you what you do or don't want to do. Mormons make a lot of assumptions, and they think they are exactly right, and you are exactly wrong. Gets a bit crazy making.

It sounds like the fun is about to begin with you and wife. You can try to exert some control over information, but it's no small task. Good luck. I'll be reading to see how it goes.

Mia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Your situation is a bit different than mine. I
> know people are gossiping like crazy, but I don't
> feel there's much I can do about it. Pretty soon
> they will move on to the next apostates.
>
>
This is exactly what I'm experiencing: the members of my now-former ward are gossiping like mad, based on the sly insinuations in the emails and voicemails I get. They'll move on eventually if I don't respond. (And hopefully my home will sell soon and I can get the heck outta Dodge.)

Mia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I will watch your posts with great interest. We
> are friends with a very staunch family that is
> getting ready to leave. Your experiences may be a
> great help to them. They have been in their ward
> for about 20 years. In that time he's been a bish.
> twice. His wife is currently the RSP. They are in
> for a rough ride.
>
Indeed, they are in for a rough ride. Thankfully they are together. I will continue to post how this falls out, hopefully to help others later.

> It sounds like the fun is about to begin with you
> and wife. You can try to exert some control over
> information, but it's no small task. Good luck.
> I'll be reading to see how it goes.
>
It's all about control of information. I am on the cusp of taking back some of the control with an email I am finally putting together to send out to everyone we know in the church. It will be interesting to see what happens with it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2012 06:39PM by sithlord.

Love the new name!

I just hope you don't regret opening doors back up...

I'm so sorry the gossipmongers are out in full force. You and twojedis will find out who your real friends are in short order. I hope you find that you have many who truly love you for yourselves and will stand by you.

That said, if neither of you plan to resign, you'll have to tread very, very carefully when talking about the church with anyone except each other and your minor children. The bishop's statement to the ward members about "not discussing gospel topics" leads me to believe that he sees you as an actual or potential threat, and may try to get you disciplined if you discuss your views.

You and twojedis are great people and will come through this, no matter what crazy TBM storms may rage around you. And we'll all be here for you.

That's not exactly what I heard that the Bishop said. He told everyone not to call us up and try to convince us to return. Two reasons that I can see for that are: 1) To not pester us and drive us further away. 2) We are now armed with dangerous information.

Hopefully #1 is what he meant, and he just doesn't want you to be hounded.

It's probably twofold. He really is a good man and I like to assume the best in people.

It helps to remember that you are leaving Mormonism to be free of manipulation.

Discovering that Mormonism is untrue is not like finding out Lutheranism is not what you thought. Mormonism is one's whole life if you are TBM, it is a subculture officially, which means experts have investigated and found the lifestyle to be significantly different enough from standard American to be termed an offshoot.

The loving and compassionate thing to do is to tell people the truth, simply, and then ask if they want to know more. Of course this conversation will vary, depending on how close you were/are, but it should sound something like this:

"Look, NAME, I want to be straight with you because I respect what your testimony means to you. SPOUSE and I have done some prayerful research and concluded that the church isn't what it claims to be. That's it. If you want to know more, I'm happy to show you the sources for my information and then you are on your own journey."

Over the years, we exmormons have heard people assemble facts, charts, lists and present them to bishops, ward members, families, spouses, and their efforts have resulted in being shunned and being cut off from loved ones.

I urge you to pay attention to their experience. People cannot hear your facts or your truth until they are ready. What makes a person ready? They may tell you something horrific they witnessed in their ward - the death of a child in scouts, or a child being left unattended due to being late, or a funeral in which the deceased was never mentioned in favor of proselyting the grieving, or they may have been banned from their own child's wedding because they couldn't pay thousands in back tithing without pulling their child off his mission (yes, this has happened).

After a few experiences like this, seeing the lack of the "fruit" that is supposed to be the hallmark of Christ's church, a person is ready to consider there might be something wrong.

In my life there were several of these needed to prepare me to even consider the church might be untrue. One was my needing to pass a worthiness test before the local ward would help one of my children stranded at a desert gas station. They were willing to let him sit on a curb in 110 degree heat for two days before the COB was open and they could check to see if I was "active" enough to deserve their help. At that time, I was in stake leadership, so I was absolutely livid. Then, after calming down, starting thinking about what Jesus would think of this bishop.


Best

Anagrammy

+1

I really hate to say this, but I think the two of you have enjoyed a nice "honeymoon period" that most apostates never experience. But if you start trying to convince your TBM friends by taking the gloves off and sending them lists of issues, then their gloves will come off too and the result is usually not pretty.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2012 02:59PM by Onmywayout . . . someday.

Yeah, that's what I think too. I told my hubby that we should just pretend to be aloof, and be non confrontational. There's a ward activity coming up and we plan to go and just be ourselves. It's the best shot at having the opportunity to save others.

Anagrammy, you are always full of wise advice. Plus, you have the benefit of experience in this. We are infants.

Yes, anagrammy, this is the advice I needed to hear. That is why at the end of my ranting, I requested the best way to have a long term influence. Thank you!!

Heed it well, it looks even more wise a few years down the road!! :-)

First, I just have to say that you and twojedis are just so cute. I love it when you answer eachothers post ;)

Second, I can relate a bit. Before I left the church, I didn't go for quite a while because I became ill. But I still kept contact with some of my tbm friends. One day, one of them came to pick me up to go out, and told me that she was struggling not to be mad at me because she had heard something about me and was waiting for me to confirm it and if it was true, she did not understand why I had not share that with her as we were supposed to be best of friends...The big news was that apparently I had a new boyfriend that was not a member and that's why I was not back in church. She calmed down when I told her the rumor was not true.

The whole thing was realy incredible. Not only the gossip that was so far from the truth but that she was ready to believe it and that she would be so offended because I did not share personal things about my life. Excuse me... it's my life after all and if I don't want to share personal stuff about me, it's my right.

Boundaries, isn't it about time! ;)

Aww, thanks! We are truly very much in love. More than ever, actually.

I'm dying to know what gossip the Bishop was hearing that he needed to squash.

Yes, my wife and I were talking about this very issue a few days ago. There is an insane amount of gossip that floats through the Ward and beyond (even across Stakes if it's juicy enough) and that is all okay!! You can still go to the temple. Never mind how much damage it does. But, however, drinking coffee is such a huge sin you cannot go and watch your children get married in the temple. Hmmm, makes reason stare...

Mormons I know are bombarded now by 'anti' stuff. Getting one more email from you isn't going to change their outlook about Mormonism, but it will change their feelings about you.

Pretending to want them to drag you back so you can discuss issues with them sounds a bit passive-aggressive. As Mormons we all learned how to fall back to that when normal behavior doesn't work, but it isn't attractive. It is really frustrating to know they are gossiping, but there isn't much you can do.

They also taught us to be missionaries. I don't like Mormon missionaries now, and I have to fight the tendency to try to convert everyone.

We are a lot like reformed smokers. We tend to be fanatic. It's just something to watch for.

Good advice. Thanks Heresy! I am curious what you mean by the Mormons you know getting bombarded by anti stuff. I was a member for 25 years and never got anything. I feel cheated! How do they get this email. Is there an anti-mormon email sending site I can register all my friends email to....:)))

I thought of the perfect answer for work friends, or really any friends. "I have made my decision and based it on indisputable facts which cannot be overridden by faith. We can still be friends if we can agree to disagree on this issue and agree not to discuss it. "

Perfect.

I have a sister who knows the truth, but stays anyway. We don't hardly ever mention the church. It's how we stay friends.

I have a stepson who is mad that we left, but doesn't want to hear a single word about why. I asked him if his testimony was so fragile that he couldn't even hear why his family would leave what he perceives to be the one true church. His answer: Yes
His wife has an uncle that was ex'd for writing a truthful book about a part of mormon history. She doesn't want to hear anything either. They think the church is wonderful. They are young and have both been treated like royalty by church members. They see nothing but good.

There are people i've known for years who now run and hide from me at the grocery store. These are adults for crying out loud. Their behavior stuns me. Apparently they think i'm very very powerful. Ok.

I have people who have attempted to spy on me and husband. I put it all out there. They stopped. There are no big dark secrets.

The Mormons I know have demanded silence from me. I don't talk to them, but i'll never be silent the way they want me to. I don't have it in me. I can't sit silent while this madness persists. I may not move any mountains, but I can remove a few rocks at a time.

sithlord Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I have decided that my second item of business is
> to hit back hard in the limited means that TBM's
> will understand. My stand with TBM's is now:
>
> 1. That I love my TBM friends and want to maintain
> their relationships.
> 2. That I have some doctrinal, historical, and
> scientific concerns about the church.
> 3. That I want more than anything to come back
> into the fold.
> 4. That I would appreciate any help bringing me
> back.

Baiting the Mormons are we?

Absolutely... hence the new screen name....Mwahahahah (note maniacal laughter)

IMO I would not send out any specifics in your "notice".

Simply that you welcome the discussion.

I think your idea was a good one - just make sure the issues you do talk about use lds sources - JoD, Family Search etc, LDs.org, use those ones at the beginning and then go to the other ones, start of with some TBM credible sources to start em thinking! Good luck! let us know if you do it! and yeah follow the steps baura said.