starting point, ending point? This loved one of mine has doubts but I am not well versed in mormon "deep" thought. best way ?

Whoa. Thank you. That organizes things :P

Also, he wants me to meet with missionaries again with him. I should probably speak with him in private about this, right?

As a missionary I didn't know jack and I gave a lot of fluffy answers that I thought were brilliant at the time. I personally would be completely comfortable going over information with the missionaries. They are a couple of kids that will probably look really stupid.

Again the approach would be that you use something online to review - that way you don't have to argue with them. If they refuse to look at the issues as written online then it will be pointless because they know too much more than you do.

Maybe see if he would be willing to look at things with you so that you can compile a list of questions for the missionaries together?

Where do you live (just general area)? Perhaps someone on this board could also join your discussion with the missionaries...

Have you watched Top 10 Mormon Problems Explained on YouTube yet? I think it does an excellent job of summarizing some of the biggest problems in a way that resonates with Mormons.

20truths.info is also another good one that summarizes a list of problems.

What you are really trying for is for him to have an "oh crap maybe this isn't true" moment. It's one thing to have doubts, it's another to really shift your paradigm to honestly think - wow maybe this isn't true. The minute that happens it's all she wrote. It's almost impossible to guess what the catalyst for that moment will be - it's so different for everyone on here.

Here's my top 5 list:

1) The emotionally strongest is Joseph Smith's polygamy/polyandry. See wivesofjosephsmith.org

2) The intellectually strongest issues is Joseph Smith faking the Book of Abraham. The video above does an excellent job of introducing the issue. The problem is you have to go into enough depth to wave off the fluffy answers Mormons have to this issue. This gives you lots of details to give it no way out http://www.bookofabraham.com/boamathie/BOA_1.html. 20truths.info also has a lot of good info on this, but I found it hard to read.

3) The multiple versions of the first vision is a pretty good one. Along with the evidence that Joseph Smith never told anyone about it until 15+ years later. The Mormon response is that he was telling different versions because he was telling it to different audiences with different purposes and that they differences don't matter. However when you actually sit down and read how different the details are it is very telling. This is especially powerful in the context that if you do your research it is clear that Joseph Smith believed in the Trinity until years after the supposed first vision.

4) The evidence that Joseph Smith completely plagiarized the temple ceremony from the Masons. The Mormons try to respond that the Masons had a corrupted version of what was given to Adam (of Adam & Eve). A fairly cursory review of the origins of Masonry and Jewish temples quickly dissolves their arguments.

5) Evidence that the Book of Mormon is fiction instead of fact. This is a pretty broad topic, but it's what really puts the nail in the coffin. Mormonthink.com has a lot of good information on this subject.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2012 05:12PM by bc.

"It's almost impossible to guess what the catalyst for the moment will be - it's so different for everyone on here."

this bears repeating...

try to find out what your loved ones doubts are and work from there

If you happen to be speaking to him today there is also this:

The first 9-11 - the Mormons beat Al Qaeda by over 100 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre

You could start with this video if they will watch it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ac_fLUHiBw

Have them read articels on www.mormonthink.com. They tell both sides of the issues and active mormons contribute to it. TBMs may be less threatened by it. More importantly, they will read the real truth from LDS approved sources.

I love RFM, but some TBMs might instantly refuse to look at a website called "exmormon.org". I remember the first time I came here. I actually paused and looked around the room to make sure no one was watching. I had to convince myself that I was just goint to look at the polygamy info since I didn't have a testimony of polygamy anyway. What could it hurt, right? Turns out, it helped me tremendously. Thank you, RFM!

Thank you, so much. I have been researching like crazy and have seen the 20 mormon points, etc. as well as read a bunch of ex mormon stories. I suppose now I am asking which way would be best to structure it. I usually get "nice" when they come around, as I am sure most would. I need to be completely analytical. The longer version is here:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,610592,610825#msg-610825

if you even care to read it. I have nothing more to lose, as someone pointed out, since I will lose him anyway. But now I feel it isn't even about me "having" him, just getting him out. He had doubts but of course, being a missionary to be, has silenced them. His father is now a bishop. Joy. I'm going to pretend like I'm going along, tell them things such as "God's law is unchanging right?" and contradict that with the BofM D&C 132, etc. as well as general history. If it is with him alone, I'm sure he'll say online stuff is bad etc etc mormon think.
I don't know. I don't want to get overpowered

I live in Texas, (denton right now) to be specific.

Email: ExMoLight@gmail.com asking for my email, I'll do the same. I would love to talk to you, I'm trying to do the same thing for my "estranged" moron (typo and it stays) RM ExBf.