I have been to traumatized the last few days to talk about this, but now she is on her way home. My third daughter has had kidney infections since we moved out here about six months ago. She doesn't have any warning signs whatsoever except a raging fever. She started another fever on Friday night and ended up at our local hospital with another kidney infection!

They ended up transferring her to a major children's hospital in Chicago the next day. After a series of tests they have determined that she has a HUGE infection in one kidney and and the contrast was not flowing through the whole kidney. The nephrologist is hopeful that she will be healed by six months with daily antibiotic use.

The other test showed that she has a level 2 and a level 4 of reflux on each side. So the urine is going right back up into each one causing this infection. He told us that as soon as this kidney is healed she will need to have surgery to stop the reflux.

Has anyone ever had this? How was the outcome? Do you have any recommendations?

My gosh, I asked a very similar question, do you remember your suggestion?

I'm terribly sorry for your daughter's condition, I hope her doctors are able to put her to rights as soon as possible.

Yes actually I do. However since she has dropped to 40 pounds I do not think a raw diet would be to her benefit. :)

OMG, so you mean it's not medically appropriate all the time? /sarcasm
Or you assumed I needed to lose weight. Either way, can you see what a dick move it was?

I feel bad that you thought is was so offensive because it was only offered with great concern to you. Then you proceeded to verbally attack me while deleting your initial posts and responses at the same time so no one else could see how awful and ungrateful you were being. I still stand by Raw eating for natural healing. It would do your body wonders. It might not work to kill infection, but it would help the body to heal itself. Sorry you are such a mean person.

I feel like I'm missing something?

It was about three or so months ago that she was in great pain and needing advice. Instead of listening to what I had to say she verbally attacked me instead. I cried for days about it. I had never delt with someone so mean before. My suggestion to help her heal was a raw food diet that I had been researching around that time. I had also been completely sleep deprived after having my baby girl and couldn't remember exactly the words to her initial post. She had deleted all her remarks. Very sad.

I was looking for medical advice, not quackery that is incompatible with my current condition.
After I deleted my post, you attempted to repost what I had written, a massively pushy and gossipy thing to do.
If it's not medically wise for your daughter now, it was likewise not medically wise for me then. But I see you will never apologize for being so pushy and trying to repost my information and give unsound advice.

I really enjoy the mormon phrasing in your post two posts back, "sorry you are such a mean person". Lol. Calling me ungrateful for your unsolicited quack advice.

Sorry you're so oblivious to the hurtful nature of your own work.
Don't worry, I'll continue to avoid your posts. At least I posted well wishes for your daughter, I would not recommend at least one of the herbs mentioned down thread as it is potentially dangerous.
Karma, you get what you gave.

You are just showing your true nature as a human.

Right back atchya.

WW - Is it the best move to bring up a grudge at a time when a poster is experiencing a traumatic event? Not as far as I can see.

As for the OP, I'm sorry for your daughter's illness and your anxiety about it. Very tough. The good news is that it seems as though your MD has a firm diagnosis and a plan to address all the issues. It's too bad that your daughter needs to go through this at what I'm assuming is a young age (or any age!) Tough on her and on you! But it may even be something they can fix with less invasive types of surgery - I'm not sure but I'm thinking perhaps laparoscopic - small incision - or even by urethroscopy or ureteroscopy - scope into urethra and/or ureters, depending where the problem is.

I have no special knowledge of the diagnosis or its remedies but the general plan seems good and it sounds like the MD has confidence that they can fix the problem, which is great news.

I hope it all turns out well. No reason why it shouldn't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2012 09:08PM by Nightingale.

When my husband brought her home he did mention something about urethroscopy because it is not as invasive.

I know 2 people who had this in both kidneys - both had a long battle - a good few months - but both are perfectly fine and happy now :) she is lucky it is only in one (the infection that is)! I know it's a worry but it's one of those fixable things with the op and time to let the antibiotics work - also make sure she takes it easy, and follow the steps to help prevent further infections before the surgery. Are you in the USA? will insurance be an issue for the op?

We have Tricare and also Medicade until the end of this month. Thank goodness it will be covered.

As the daddy of a little one, it's really scary to read this. We just never know.

Hopefully, everything will go well. It's good that they found the cause.

Warm thoughts going out to you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2012 05:50PM by T-Bone.

Thank you so much.

I've only heard bits and pieces from DW.

This nieve had had issues with this a few time before and they final did surgery to deal with it. I think she may only have the reflux in one kidney but not sure.

I was told there are to approaches— 1) through the abdomen and 2)the other is somehow less invasive but has a lower rate of success.

I'll ask my wife if she can get more of the specifics.

My niece I think is doing fine. She had the surgery and was at a family event not too long after.

Hang in there and know we're all pulling for your daughter and family.

The doctor mentioned something about stints. Do you think we should take the abdomen route then? I look forward to your wifes details. Thank you.

We are going to have her on Pro-Biotics everyday while she is on the anti-biotics.

So sorry to hear this. What a frightening thing to happen to a child!

Hope everything works out just fine

Anagrammy

Perhaps in addition to the regular medicine --try Raspberry Leaf Tea and also Cranberry Juice (diluted with half/half water).. Both are excellent for knocking out urinary infections and also excellent kidney cleaners.. Just a thought..

JB

JB...I just ran to the store to get the cranberry juice. That is such a good idea about the raspberry leaf tea. I used it at the end of this last pregnancy and it really tastes wonderful. I think she would like it very much.

Hi puff. Sorry, I don't know what age your daughter is. I'm kind of assuming baby as you mention a recent pregnancy?

You know this already so I won't belabour the point but I can't help but mention that it's a *very* good idea to check with the MD (I'm assuming a urologist?) about every medication and supplement you're giving to your daughter in addition to her antibiotics and any other prescribed medication for this condition. (Or check with your pharmacist - but I'd talk to both MD and pharmacist if possible).

There are so many interactions, not to mention allergies and/or side effects these days that I never take anything lightly any more, no matter how seemingly innocuous or common and well recommended. I have recently experienced a nasty side effect to a common over-the-counter med and now you better believe I read all the enclosed info first and then research it even further. If I don't absolutely need the substance for health and/or quality of life I think twice, and then again, about taking it.

This includes "natural" substances, supplements, health food store stuff, etc. I bought some supplements from a health food store recently, after a lot of research, and even so found that there were a lot of potential side effects and interactions and it ended up being a waste of money for me. That, though, is preferable to me than suffering side effects, but I'd rather not have wasted the dosh in the first place.

Especially with children we need to be so careful as even a small amount of any substance can be particularly harmful to small bodies.

As for the "stent" placement your MD mentioned, I believe they can do that through scopes so it doesn't always mean a patient needs abdominal incisions (or if so, they can be tiny, such as through laparoscopy). Basically, a stent is just a small tube that keeps the passageway patent (open).

Yes, thank goodness you have health care coverage. Living in Canada, that is one worry we don't have, in general. If we're ill, or even for health maintenance, most things we need are usually covered. The waits can be long, though, for many things, but not in cases like yours that involve infection. In that case, usually expert care is readily available, fast, and "free" (included in our taxes and relatively small user fees).

Good luck with it all. It sounds like a big worry but there's every reason to be very optimistic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2012 09:21PM by Nightingale.

Oh crud.....I wonder if the cranberry juice would counter the effects of the antibiotic???? I will call in the morning. My chick-a-dee is 7 years old. She is 48" tall and is now down to 40 pounds. She looks like a little refugee baby. I am just going to feed her all day long if I have to. Tonight I made her favorite dinner and she ate all of it.

We are wondering if her body is not telling her that she has to go pee? She has apparently had bladder infections that has led to the kidney issues. How could she have NOT felt any pain? I have had two bladder infections in my life and I thought I was going to die. I can only imagine that a kidney infection would be far worse.

My daughter is in her mid-thirties now. She had reflux and a kidney infection.

Here is what the doctor told me back then: They could repair the problem surgically, but if they did nothing she would probably outgrow it. The doctor gave us the choice of surgery or prophylactic antibiotics to prevent infection. We chose daily antibiotics. She had no more infections, and she did outgrow the reflux problem.

In making the decision about what to do, I asked if there were any problems with keeping her on antibiotics long-term. The doctor said the only problem would be that she might become allergic to the antibiotic. This seemed like the more conservative approach, rather than surgery, so that is what we did. IIRC, my daughter was on daily antibiotics for about 3 years.

BUT, and this is HUGE BUT--back then nobody was really attuned to the important role that gut bacteria play in health. It is now understood that gut bacteria are critical to maintaining or breaching the integrity of the gut lining. Good gut bacteria help us properly digest our food, produce healthy brain chemicals, and keep the gut lining intact--permeable enough to allow nutrients to cross it, but with tight enough cell junctions to keep undigested food particles from crossing into the blood stream.

Antibiotics can wipe out healthy bacteria and allow candida to thrive. Over time, candida and other unhealthy organism can compromise the gut lining, leading to autoimmune disorders.

My daughter has celiac disease now, and I am virtually certain that those daily antibiotics when she was young set in motion the cascade of events that eventually led to the celiac disease. (Celiac disease is an autoimmune disease cause by intolerance to gluten in wheat and related grains. The gliadin molecule in gluten should be too large to cross the intestinal barrier of an intact intestine.)

While I agree with Nightingale that you should talk with your doctor about things you give to your young daughter, I was very glad to read that you had thought about giving her probiotics while she is on antibiotics. Cranberries seem to help keep bacteria from sticking to the walls of the bladder, but cranberry "cocktail" that you get in the grocery store is full of sugar and probably won't help. If you use full-strength cranberry juice, it tastes sour. Also, it can acidify the urine, and I would have concerns about the effect of acid on a young child's urinary tract, so talking to the doctor about it would definitely be a good idea.

As for pain, I have had bladder infections and agree that they are painful, but when my daughter was little and had kidney infections, she did not seem to have pain, either in her bladder or her kidneys.

It has been more than 30 years since I dealt with my daughter's reflux and infections. Given the choices I had then, and the knowledge I have now, I think I would choose surgery over long-term antibiotics, but you might have better options now than I did back then.

If long-term antibiotic use is recommended, please do some research on the problem of "leaky gut." Here is a reasonably good overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaky_gut

The science on gut bacteria and gut permeability is pretty young, with much of the research having been done within the last decade.

I don't know what you should do, but plainly this is a treatable condition. Best wishes to you and to her.

DW suffered with this problem all through childhood. Soon after we married she began developing stones on a regular basis. Eventually she lost all function of one kidney due to all of the scar tissue. It was surgically removed and she is doing okay right now.

Yes, as I recall, the doctor said that scar tissue could form on the kidneys from repeated kidney infections. Whatever the treatment options, preventing infection is a paramount goal.

Parsley tea. That's how I keep my kidneys and urinary tract free of infection and pain. Do a search, you'll see lots of information about it. It works wonderfully.

I hope for the best for your daughter.

This happens in about 1% of infants. It can resolve spontaneously, but the chance of that with grade IV, and the fact that it is bilateral, make it less likely. There isn't a real good consensus in the medical community about the best treatment. Some, like an above poster mentioned, are treated with prophylactic antibiotics at a low dose. Some new studies show close monitoring with treatment as needed can be just as effective (although this was shown only in Grade I-III). When you get to Grade V, surgery is almost always recommended as the risks of renal scarring and subsequent hypertension are higher. The fact that she has had such bad infections make me understand why the doctor wants to repair surgically. Success rates are high. They can do it either endoscopically (through small holes in the abdomen), or through an open incision. The open incisions tend to have a slightly higher success rate, but bigger scar and slightly more difficult recovery. If you do decide to go with surgery, make sure you go with a urologist who has lots of experience in this area. Most of this info comes from Uptodate (a database many doctors use that provides summary articles discussing best evidence based practice).

I have a child who went through this as a new born. Had to have ureteral reimplantation done. Child is great and normal now. You can google the procedure. Your doctors SHOULD be aware of this procedure. Check with pediatric urologists at childrens hospitals if you feel you are getting a run around.

Raspberry Leaf Tea and Cranberry Juice do not create a problem with the anti biotics --No more than drinking water would . However they certainly have healing properties and are all natural ..

JB

Thank you for checking! :)

I'm 55 now. I have no idea what they used--or how I got better--but I was very sick. I had to go for blood tests every day and I got shots every day. And then I wonder why I'm afraid of needles. I'm sure how they treat it now is a lot different than when I was young (I was in first grade)--but I'm fine and I have no problems with my kidneys now.