I'm optimistically cautious posting this one, not sure how successful I was at conveying the sheer magnitude of the population growth rate when compared to Peer Nations like the Roman Empire.

Growth Rates work like compounded interest. Double the growth rate from what is typical over a thousand years and you get astronomical populations like in the Book of Mormon.

http://www.mormoninfographics.com/2012/10/population-growth-in-book-of-mormon.html

EDIT:
Per input I added a note referencing the Mulekites as part of the starting population of 100



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2012 02:44PM by nlocnil.

Here's the apologist response, if you were wondering:

http://www.fairlds.org/authors/danderson-steven/adding-up-the-book-of-mormon-peoples



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2012 01:08PM by nlocnil.

Well, I think I have figured out the apologists tactic, say a lot of nothing, go round and round, add in big words. This confuses the reader and makes anyone who is quesitoning say "well, I don't understand it, but at least someone does, so I will just take their word for it. I can still believe."

What a crock of crap. Anyway, good infographic. Thanks.

I think it goes without saying that Joseph Smith ALSO got this one wrong. He neglected to consider science when writing the BofM so he was sloppy. Also, I doubt he was a mathematician.

The fact that people buy it even today just goes to show how steeped people are in their brainwashing.

1st I LOVE your infographics!

1) I think your numbers are problematic and not as convincing as they could be. (I've seen other arguments that seemed more convincing).

For one I can also expected that the 230,000 included women and children since it is a battle for survival.

Your 100 base is EXTREMELY generous - 20-25 re the guesses I've seen.

I assume you have seen this:
mormonthink.com/book-of-mormon-problems.htm#population



2) I found this infographic hard to interpret understand. What if you formatted it this way?

Have a line chart with two lines - projected population growth and then estimated population. This will clearly show the contrast of how far off the population is.

Then below the graph explain the assumptions - the assumed growth rate, the numbers given in the BoM and what can be extrapolated.

--------------

The text of the BoM also makes it clear that the Nephites & Lamanites are continually at war which makes the population growth even more suspect - they should probably have a slowly than average growth rate.

There is also the issue that the BoM clearly states that the Lamanites are much, much more numerous that the Nephites & the Mulekites combined.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2012 01:32PM by bc.

Thanks!

1) I anticipated that question, and so even if you take the 230,000 as the total population look at the tall chart on the right. You can see how 230,000 is so much greater than 8,753

The point is that starting with a population of 100 using Roman population growth rate should have a Final Population of 8,753

Yes I was EXTREMELY generous on all my assumptions:

a) Ps = 100 when I could have gotten away with 20-25
b) Lamanite Army = Nephite Army even though Mormon 6:8 makes it clear that they were outnumbered.
c) I used a Warrior to Population ratio of 1:4 even though Anthropologists typically use 1:5 or 1:6

2) I would have thought the same thing but the problem was that when I charted it that way the Roman line was virtually flat when compared to the Nephite/Lamanite Chart.

So it just looked like a graph of the Nephite/Lamanite Population with a flat line underneath it.

Just didn't work.

LOL - it's pretty sad when the projections are so far from reality that you can't even see the rise in the real line relative to the fictional line.

You may want to say that the 100 number includes Nephites & Mulekites - that was my other immediate thought, that you weren't account for the mulekites.

Some infographics ideas I think would be interesting:

1) Show the required ages of Jacob, Enos, Jarom, Omni, etc. based on the dates given in the Book of Mormon. (It's very obvious the Joseph Smith used this as filler for the 116 lost plates to get caught up to the time of King Benjamin - an average 65 year generation span. Enos had to live to be something like 120 assuming Jacob was 65 when he fathered Enos.

A) Also interesting is that it gives the death age of several people in the Book of Mormon - captain Moroni, King Benjamin, Alma (if I remember right off the top of my head). As I recall the oldest was 72. Another was 63. So you don't get an indication that they were ridiculously long lived.

2) Show the scriptures that indicate that Indians and blacks are cursed with dark skin because of wickedness. Then show an image of the earth that shows that all the cursed people with dark skin happen to live near the equator and that white people live away from the equator - an adaptation to produce more vitamin d with the lack of sunlight.

Then make the point that it is interesting that all the cursed people happen to live where there is more sunlight.

3) Show on one picture that JS had an MO of creating fake ancient scripture texts:
a) BoM
b) Kinderhook plates
c) Gespalt letters
d) D&C 104
e) Book of Abraham

I think it's very telling that he did this not once or twice but at least 5 times that I am aware of.

Note: D&C 104 is telling because it was originally said to be a revelation of Enoch and the church has now admitted that it was really about how to divvy up the law of consecration leftovers.

4) The ridiculously young ages of captain Moroni & Mormon and the reasons given for their selection. Also include how young JS claimed to be when receiving his revelations.

5) A map of just how small the group of Zenos/Noah/Limhi was surrounded by Lamanites and how they amazingly held off all the Lamanites for years and years and years. Then a few years later captain Moroni looses 1/2 of all the vast Nephite lands to these same Lamanites.

6) The history of baptisms in the BoM
- Alma does it out of nowhere. Clearly not baptized because he baptizes himself - so he invented it.
- Clearly all the disciples are baptized.
- The first thing Jesus does is tell every to get baptized - even though they were already baptized

7) A comparison of the growth rate of the LDS church vs 7th day adventists vs JWs.

8) A graph of the states with the higest suicide & depression rates - with a by your fruits shall ye know them.

9) A few of scriptures decrying the great & spacious building,
riches, fine twined linen, etc interlaced with pictures of the City Creek Mall, Monson in an audi, a fancy clothing store in the mall, etc.

10) A chart contrasting the Peter/Paul Christian church vs. the current LDS church (illustrating that it's not really much of a restoration as claimed)

Chart updated to include reference to the Mulekites.

Thanks for the idea list



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2012 02:44PM by nlocnil.

Yes, I know in my heart that their population growth was easily double. Don't you remember god made their meat "sweet" resulting in much "suck"? Of course this led to a baby boom! ;)

I love your website btw. The graphical approach really helps spark the cogdis imo. Anyone that has ever read the bom and considered all of the numbers mentioned, the parts about filling both the land north and the land south, the multiple leaders with their 10k armies, etc, Those are some pretty amazing claims especially considering no direct archaeological evidence and lack of surviving dna. A population has to be pretty big and specialized to support a standing army.

You only included the one battle---these people were constantly fighting and killing each other.

Not meaning to include or exclude any particular battle. I'm just using the death tallies that Mormon recorded to estimate the total population.

(tongue firmly in cheek)

There might be something else in my cheek.

Also, remember the time when god killed everyone (save a few) in the Western Hemisphere because the guys in the Eastern Hemisphere killed jesus.