Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2012 03:19PM by emma.

Go on.

Do we let the children raise themselves? Not saying it has to go to the mom, but someones got to do it right?

What a silly thing to say. Care to elaborate?

Originally, in some parts of ancient western civilization, the men specialized as farmers, while the women specialized as shopkeepers, and other small businesses, including some manufacturing specialties. Well, eventually there was a schism in the old Catholic church between the priesthood and the nuns for power. Technically, the priests had always ran the church, while the nuns worked in auxiliary arms, but the nuns were incredibly popular because they actually worked to help people, while the priest focused more on ways to get more and more money from the people. (Gee this sounds familiar)

Eventually the priesthood came down hard on the nuns specifically, and women in general, banning married women from the professional trades, and placing their shops and businesses under the hands of their husbands. This later part was done, because women had a tendency to donate their money directly to the nun ran charities, and the Pope felt that by taking the purse away from them, the husbands would be more inclined to donate the family wealth directly to the church.

This was actually one of the causes of the development of the Dark Ages, and where the concept of the stay at home mother comes from.

Elaborating: expecting a person to do all the cooking, cleaning, laundry all by themselves while taking care of small children with no breaks during the day is sadistic.

Or oblivious. I think most of my gender, myself included, are less evil, and more ignorant.

Seriously, I have been in my home hundreds of times without noticing all the dirt that women like to point out on their first visit. I think they place it there when I am not looking.

Whereas it is not sadistic to expect someone else to spend up to 16 hours a day in -for example- a noisy, hot, dangerous foundry, doing a mentally draining and physically exhausting job in a toxic environment in order to fund the other person to do all the cooking, cleaning and laundry?

Life is horrible for many people, isn't it?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2012 02:18AM by Susan I/S.

I've worked demanding, physically exhausting jobs, and the fact is, nothing can drain you as quickly nor as thoroughly as caring for and supervising young children. At least with a job you can leave it at the end of the day. You can't walk out on the kids.

Moms don't get days off. They don't get downtime. They don't get vacations. They barely have time to shower and sleep.

Why is that silly? This stay-at-home-mom thing is a relatively new cultural phenomenon. Back in the day, when were were an agrarian society, everyone in the whole family worked. As soon as they could, children were given chores to tend to the animals, the house, the garden. As they got older, they helped with the crops in the fields -- the revenue generating things. Moms may have stayed in the house to tend to newborn infants, but they may have also had older siblings or other extended family who could manage the child tending, while they went out and directed the children with the other chores. Everyone pitched in.

But to cut yourself off from other adults, feel ashamed and guilty if you need day care or a sitter, and do nothing else but helicopter around your beloved sprog? First world problem. And yes, sadistic.

I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and feelings on this. Some people love it, some people hate it. Noone should be forced into it. All women should have a choice. It's all about the choice. Obviously someone has to care for kids - it's just a matter of - is it going to be the mother, the father, or someone else that gets paid to do it... Ideally, our society would be one which valued children and parents such that whichever parent was to be the primary care taker would have more of an opportunity to have flexible scheduling, but it's difficult in our culture and society to achieve that.

Also as a side note, my littlest one still isn't sleeping through the night. Sleep deprivation always makes things seem worse.

That's honestly why I don't want another child. I am happy with my 2. The sleep deprivation nearly kills me. You've got my sympathy. Hang in there.

Men should be able to CHOOSE to be SAHD's.
Here's the deal: It's usually not an option for any except the most wealthy or the most stupid. The vast majority of families could not make it one one salary.

I have noticed though that within the Mormon culture, it IS sort of forced for women to be SAHMs. My ex's cousin converted to Mormonism, married a BIC TBM. Now she has a biology degree from BYU (I really have to chuckle at that one), and had a decent paying job. She quit right after they got married, took a part time gig swabbing cheeks for DNA tests until her first child was born a year later. Husband has a great paying job, and she was content with hers, but even at the wedding people were chiding her to quit to become a "proper wife and mother".

If you choose it, great. But from my perspective, completely as an outsider, it seems that unless you instantly become one exiting the temple, you are ostracized and worn down into becoming one.

I remember as a child many times when my Mother was in a near melt-down from so many kids and a house and garden to take care of. With Dad being the bishop it was rough.

All of the kids to this day appreciate what she did and love her all the more for it and treat her like gold. We all know know now how rough it was even though none of us had as many children.

I hope your children give the same to you someday.

Stay at home mom is a fine lifestyle but expecting a stay at home mom to be solely responsible for joint things like dishes, making food, cleaning, and laundry is what's absurd. We stay home to raise kids but housework is everyone's work, so long as they live in the house. Sahm is not a bad thing, it's all in how it's implemented.

Being a SAHM is a viable option, as long as it's a choice and people are able to live off a single salary. I also think that dads should be able to make that choice as well, especially if the mom is able to make more money than he can. It's often not an option if people live in a high cost of living area, as you really need 2 salaries just to pay the basic bills.

Want's so great about the work place? I'd stay home if were an option. Most people envy my job--but the bottom line it is still work. I wish any man or woman could stay home care for their kids full time--if that was their desire.

Saying that is like saying everyone should be a Mormon or atheists are idiots. Because not every lifestyle works for everybody and clearly, being an SAHM isn't for you. That's OK. But don't dis other peoples' lifestyles just because it doesn't work for you. I thought being a stay-at-home mom was wonderful. I had so much fun with my kids. My house was never clean but so what? We played and studied and worked together and it wasn't always easy but I wouldn't have changed a thing. But I'm smart, have a college degree and did some occasional pick-up work: editing mostly but I did some after school daycare too. I think if you are smart enough to think up ways to make something of your life either by teaching your kids things they didn't learn in school or running a part-time business or getting involved in a sport you love or a million other things, then you are OK. There are plenty of ways to challenge yourself. But it isn't for everybody. If you are one of those people who need the outside discipline of the workplace or the challenge of constant adult company or like achieving in the workplace or just don't like kids enough to work with them 24/7, then you won't be OK. The thing is, there is absolutely nothing wrong with either lifestyle but it's important you know yourself well enough to know what works for you and you don't let anyone try to shove you into any pre-concieved mold. Some of the best moms I know work full-time and if it works for them, fine. I feel as lucky that I didn't have to work as they probably feel that they can have both kids and a career. It was my dream job but like I said, I made something of the job and didn't just slack on it.

I don't mean to go on and on but seriously, different strokes for different folks. Be accepting of lifestyles different from your own.

Blame it on the robber barons. Industrialization stripped men away from the farm, shop and home to use their labor in factories.

Married women were left home alone with the kids and were no longer expected to make the economic contribution they had when they worked with textile production (now mechanized), vegetable, fruit and dairy production (now being commercialized) or ran the shop with their husbands, shop production now being moved to the assembly line.

It did give women alot of control over the household, especially while the husband was away at work, but whatever economic power women had pre-industrialization was severly limited.

So I'd put it in the sadistic column.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2012 08:39PM by lulu.

I've loved staying home with my kids. Yes, I do not have a career, but that's the choice we made and neither of us regret it. I have great memories, I've had time to develop hobbies with the kids all in school, and our lives are more relaxed. Now that we ditched the church, we have 100x more time as well.

My husband wants to be the one to stay at home with the kids, since I am the one with the degree. I want to stay at home for the first four years though.

emma, it sounds like you're physically exhausted. That's what I took from your post without need for elaboration.

It is very hard to be a stay at home mom, and most people who've never done it don't have any idea how hard it is, from birth on up through the years where you're cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, taking kids to the doctor/dentist/eye dr/orthodontist, to ALL the church activities from Primary on up.

You also make sure they get to their various outside interests: cheerleading, t-ball, pitching machine, then softball, baseball, soccer, football, tennis, golf, basketball, dance, gymnastics, piano, band, play practice, craft programs,library reading programs, swimming lessons, the pool, skiing, etc. ad nausem. You buy them pets and make sure they take care of them, but you're the one who takes the animals to the vet.

Then there are all the school projects, Science Fair, cultural projects like foods from other countries (which we moms make), Language Arts fair, talent shows, Honors Day ceremonies where you serve food or drinks or paint faces or do any number of things. Or you volunteer in reading lab, math lab or computer lab. You serve as room mother and help with all parties and bake cupcakes, brownies, cookies til you wanna puke. Or you serve on school committees like PTO, Band Boosters, etc. You are the one who signs progress reports, report cards, and goes to parent-teacher conferences. Then there's help they need with homework. And if you're a teacher, you end up helping your kids' friends with it sometimes, too. You drive your kids to art shows and museums. You get up at 4 a.m. so your kids can get on buses to go on field trips.

You do birthday parties at the pool, the bowling alley, at miniature golf, at pizza places or hamburger joints or your home for each of your children. You take your kids to have pictures done individually and as a family. You have spend-the-night parties and drive your kids to other homes for spend-the-nights. You drive them to babysit or to buy gifts for others on any number of occasions. You drive them to school dances and church dances. You take them for hair cuts or to get their hair done for special occasions. You take them to rent tuxes or get prom dresses. Then there's carpooling, and if you're a SAHM, you get asked to cart extra kids around because other moms are at work.
That's all I can remember off the top of my head. I'm sure I'm forgetting things.

Yeah, there's a lot that's tough about being a stay at home mom. I finished a degree and worked when I had kids at home, too, and I still had to do 90% of the stuff at home every day (we just had a lady come in and clean once a week).

I understand why you wrote what you did. And some days, it sucks. It's a great deal of work, and sometimes it feels like no one notices. Luckily, most of the time it doesn't suck. But you have every right to feel exhausted. I can certainly relate. I'm exhausted again just thinking about it all again. But am I glad I could do it? Absolutely. It's the best job in the world (most days).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2012 08:40PM by ducky333.

I really like my kids. I don't want someone else to teach my kids or mold who they are as human beings. You only have a short time with your kids and then they are gone. ..it is completely a selfless act. ........I look forward to having a career again someday, but right now it is their time.

If someone had told me 20 years ago that I would be a SAHM someday, I would have laughed. Or cried. But as other posters have mentioned, the important thing is to have choices and also to do what works for your family. That is not going to be the same for every family or even all the time for the same family.

In the 8 years that we've been parents, my husband and I have changed our work/home configuration several times. We have a special needs child, and for a few years, it's been best for us to have me at home full-time. And I enjoy it a lot. I've taught myself how to cook from scratch, especially foods from my husband's home country. My education and work experience have prepared me to take care of our child (I'm a speech-language pathologist and have worked with kids with a variety of special needs.) I will probably be going back to work part time soon.

My husband makes about twice as much as I did, and I have more experience with kids than he has, so for us it made sense for me to be the one staying home. But for some families it is better to have dad at home and mom working, and I think over time that will become less unusual.

It's a matter of what works in most instances. Nobody is an "idiot" for taking on the care of children, with love and concern.
Do what works.
I've worked outside the home. Being a mom at home with kids was the hardest job ever.