I've been thinking about this lately.

After figuring out the TSCC is a fraud, why would you be attracted to Christianity, or religion at all?

It seems like Exmos go in different directions after Mormonism. But, it puzzles me because Christianity is as crazy and baseless as the MORG. Lot's of information out there on this. Christianity is all based on the canonized works of the Catholic church.

I love the Beatitudes and many of Christs teachings, but some of it is out there. But, there actually not much proof that Jesus even existed. Maybe he did exist, but the gospels have many holes.

Anyway, for me all religion is just a product of men.

I'm just curious why ex-mos will continue to follow religious folklore of the superstitious?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2012 05:19PM by taketheredpill.

Because it feels great to get all the attention christians will give you when they know you're the 1 that jesus left the 99 for.

An ex-mormon joining christianity is a huge ego stroke.

Plus they spent so much time talking to themselves while picturing jesus in their heads, they don't want to admit they wasted all that time.

But mostly, many people are afraid to admit they don't have the answers, and are more than happy to continue pretending.

Oh yeah, they're afraid to die too.

What you are missing is seeing chrisian churches (not all of them) that actually care about people and the community they live in.
It is refreshing to know that I can participate at the level that I choose.
It is refreshing to have the pastor to invite me to lunch and just have a nice conversation as friends.
It is refreshing to go to church and not feel inadequate because I am single.
I am not the gung ho bible basher I am mostly an observer but that is OK.
The music is enjoyable, the sermons are informative and uplifting. I don't go every Sunday I go when I choose to go.
If for some reason I want to start attending another church that is OK too.
There are many non religious organizations that people can find cummunity with. I for the time being attend a christian church I can respect.
There is a Buddist temple in a neighboring town that I would like to visit just to see what it is like.

There are lots of other things one can belong to that meet what you say that do not have the baggage and history of Christianity, so why Christianity?

LOL

And if the religion involves beer, all the better.

Man-made is not the issue. Does it help you accomplish something you want to accomplish is.

Didnt Al Bundy start a beer church?

Good question.
Me and my wife are going to lay off religion for a while.
But for me, I still have that goody feeling about Christ. I think I will still follow His teachings since I'm the most familiar. But I have to admit that churches are not ordained from Him. I don't think he even necessitated building churches. Fellowship was just a bonus.

I do like to casually attend other churches because I like to know more non-Mormons around here (Utah).

Yes, I meant "beatitudes."

OkAY, SO I'M NOT A GOOD SPELLER!

IT MUST BE NICE TO BE SO PERFECT!

Just kidding. . . .

Former Catholic and nevermo.

I know after leaving Catholicism I still believed in God for many years. It was comfortable and safe.

I started reading about other religions and realized that most of them have a lot in common. At first I thought this was a sign that eventually I would find that universal truth between all of them. At some point I came to the conclusion that maybe everybody was just crazy. I go back and forth a lot.

I do like what Dawkin's says about it. "Reality is its own magic."

In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing. - Mark Twain

I took the advice of the NT seriously and have tried to be a wise man and build my house upon a rock. Well thanks to the law of gravity and my lack of sufficient rocket fuel & crafts I'm pretty much stuck on this rock I call earth. So what do we know about the earth? Well according to the Book of Genesis it took 6 days to be created. And what do we know about rocks (i.e. my foundation)? Well that's where Geologists come in. And the day that the geologists start coming to a consensus on the earth taking 6 days to be created is when I'll start taking the Bible seriously again.

Those are some nice metaphors you have going on there. I like your thinking.

To reject Christianity because Mormonism is false is to proverbialy, throw out the baby with the bathwater. I find great meaning in the Bible including the fact that much is not to be taken literally, like Genesis. With that understood, one find's great truth in the scriptures (NOT LDS SCRIPTURES). TSCC has spoiled the reading by using (along with JS's alterations) the KJV.

Most of the time when people ask this question, they just want at least one Christian to give a sincere reason so they can pounce on him and feel all dominant while simultaneously being a complete @$$.

So, let me frame the question in my own way; When you left Mormonism, did you continue purchasing cakes for your children on their birthdays so you could light a fire on top of the cakes and make your children blow them out...but only after making a secret wish?

If you didn't stop doing that, then why? It's AT LEAST as stupid, irrational and magical as Mormonism.

People are not purely rational beings. If we were we'd be like my stupid computer I'm typing this on. Giving up any irrational thing doesn't mean you'll give up any other irrational thing.

Sorry for the mis-understanding.

Let's assume the target group we are discussing, that leaves Mormonism and stays in Christianity is of at least average intelligence and not a bunch of dumb@$$e$. There's got to be some reason that makes sense to them.

I think people can compartmentalize quite well. So, to them, Mormonism represents a charlatan, Joseph Smith, who committed rampant adultery and manipulated his followers, etc...And the current leaders of the Church, who very likely are corrupt in some way. But it doesn't really represent Jesus. Jesus is in a separate folder in the brain of the group we are discussing.

So leaving Mormonism does not logically, for this group of people, lead to leaving Christianity. They simply don't see Mormonism and Christianity as being in the same category like other people do. They don't have one folder titled "Supernatural" that encompasses all spiritual ideas, but instead two folders titled "Mormonism" and "Christianity" and they are mutually exclusive. This means they have another folder called "Spirituality" somewhere in their archives that is unaffected by their religious affiliation.

I attend a christian church for several reasons even though I do not believe the bible or in the need for a saviour.

I enjoy traditions. I still celebrate some jewish holidays of my ancestors. Continuing with the christian tranditions are also comforting.

I like the social life. Yes, other groups also provide the social aspect and I also attend many of them (Drinking liberally, post-mo, ASPCA, and LGBT groups, etc). My mother has commented that I have a busier life than when I was mormon. At least I get to choose if I'm going to any of these meetings, and several have BEER!

I like beer, and the church I go to has pot lucks at the brewery (lutheran).

I really like the pastor. She has been very helpful to me. She was a marriage counselor with experience in LGBT issues prior to her calling as a pastor. I can discuss my true feelings about religion without being judged for it.

I was paid $490 last month as a paid musician in church services. I make even more during advent and lent with weekday services.

to repair the damage. They refer to each other as "Brother." The crew chief refers to me as "Sis" (sister in Christ).

If the damage to my home (a 10 foot home in the roof, ceiling panels down inside the house with piles of insulation everywhere on the floor wasn't enough to deal with, the construction firm crew chief attempted (and I stopped his little arse) to attach a muddy 2X4 to my ceiling joists rather than use new wood that my insurance company has been paying for.

According to the crew chief, he had be "using the 2X4 in my business," and he could not understand why I didn't want that up in my attic. I am livid!

The 2X4 had been used on the roof to stabilize they guys whom are working up there. It had holes, mud, and a serious split on one section of it.

The last time I saw it, it was tossed into the refuse bin that was hauled off to the dump.

Noting that they double dip, I began to wonder where else they had skimped on my home. Found it! Rather than replace the fascia 2X4 that was damaged in the storm, they flipped the board over and attached the damaged end to the far end of the roof rather than replace the 2X4. I flagged their behinds on this one when I had a manger show up on site.

I have something else that needs inspecting this coming Monday: They used a junction box, the tape they used coming out of the junction box appears to be masking tape and not electrical tape. Sigh!

If I could fire this group of bleeping morons and had a replacement team ready to go, I would!

Christians? My Ass!

When I first left I felt like I needed to be Christian. Soon after I realized christianity was also easily debunked. Soon after that realized all religion was the work of man and view myself as an atheist now.

This concept genuinely intrigues me, as well. Here's what I assume (and please, I'm welcome to learning I'm wrong about this, so correct me if you are a Christian and this doesn't apply to you):

People leave mormonism for a lot of different reasons. We've talked on this board before about how some people are driven to investigate TSCC because of doctrinal issues, others because of historical issues, others because of science, and others for emotional reasons (witnessing abhorrent behavior of church leadership, for example). We all come to the conclusion that the church isn't what it says it is, but we all have different things that made us go "A-HA!" For example, church history doesn't really bother me. I think it's interesting, and it supports the conclusion I had already come to, but I don't see it as the strongest evidence against TSCC.

I have to assume that people who left mormonism and turned to Christianity (and embrace the belief system, not just the social or lifestyle side of it) left for a different set of reasons than those of us who turned atheist. My assumption is that a lot of them left mormonism because of the very historical issues that don't really matter to me - Joe Smith's polyandry, multiple first vision accounts, MMM, changing temple ordinances, etc. Those issues are uniquely mormon.

On the other hand, I see these issues as inconsequential because, in my mind, the bigger picture is that the concept of religion doesn't make any logical sense. I left TSCC because the idea of God as presented by the church was irrational.

But, I think I can understand why someone who left mormonism because they found out about the lies about the history or because of the racist/sexist doctrines would still hold on to religion. They didn't look at the basics of the mormon religion with a critical eye - they only examined the "small picture" stuff.

Am I way off track?

taketheredpill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've been thinking about this lately.
>
> After figuring out the TSCC is a fraud, why would
> you be attracted to Christianity, or religion at
> all?
>
> It seems like Exmos go in different directions
> after Mormonism. But, it puzzles me because
> Christianity is as crazy and baseless as the MORG.
> Lot's of information out there on this.
> Christianity is all based on the canonized works
> of the Catholic church.
>
> I love the Beatitudes and many of Christs
> teachings, but some of it is out there. But,
> there actually not much proof that Jesus even
> existed. Maybe he did exist, but the gospels have
> many holes.
>
> Anyway, for me all religion is just a product of
> men.
>
> I'm just curious why ex-mos will continue to
> follow religious folklore of the superstitious?

You have committed a real no-no in terms of philosophical debate.

You have asked a question, yet already provided your own answer. And you have asked the question in a way that makes it difficult for people to answer. If their answer disagrees with yours. ("Oh, so you are dumb enough to follow the religious folklore of the superstitious, are you?")

Your question also seems to veer towards the "No True Scotsman" error. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/No_True_Scotsman

As in: "No true ex-Mormon would believe in God."

But I do not see where he provides an answer why someone would. Without saying why someone would, he is not answering his own question.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2012 11:32PM by MJ.

DW and I have been attending the United Methodist church for a number of years although we are atheists. We go primarily for non religious reasons. DW is an excellent pianist and has found a place to participate. We both enjoy participating in the bell choir. I have taught an adult Sunday School class for a several years. I taught whatever I wanted using scholars like Ehrmann, Crossan, Dever, Levine, Cross, Finklestein, among others as sources. Topics have addressed the documentary hypothesis for the Torah as well as the multiple source hypothesis for the four gospels.

Like others have said, we can choose the degree to which we participate. We contribute financially but can look at the financial records anytime we want, although I have to admit the UM church is talking a bit too much about tithing for my level of comfort but it's not a test of fellowship so there is no big deal.

We just moved so it's time to pick a new church. It's nice to have a culture where it is expected that we will visit a few congregations (some Methodist and some not) and then decide. Who knows? Maybe we'll decide not to go to any.

One important thing to consider: All Christians and all Christian denominations are not created equal.

I'm a lifelong New Englander, born and raised Catholic, who converted to UU in my 50s. The Christian churches around here have historically been mainstream Catholic and Protestant ones (American Baptist Convention, Methodist, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Greek Orthodox, etc.). The concept of "Be one of OUR kind of Christian or you will burn in hell!" hasn't been awfully common around here. (There have always been a few Jehovah's Witnesses on the margins, and there are growing but still-small numbers of storefront evangelical/fundamentalist independent Christian churches now, that claim that only THEY are "real" Christians.)

I think that the key here is what anonemouse said: We can participate at any level we choose. We can simply show up and populate the pews on a Sunday as frequently or infrequently as we like, or we can also choose to participate in the activities that interest us--choir, Sunday school, reading/discussion groups, etc. No one is "calling" us to any of them. For instance, my church's search committee asked me whether I'd be interested in serving on one of the leadership slots, but I just told them "no, thanks" and decided to teach young-adult religious ed instead. I give my church exactly as much time and money as *I* want to.

I imagine it must be a very freeing sensation for a Mormon of a spiritual bent: a sense of congregation among like-minded folks, while getting to be an adult capable of making his/her own decisions.

OK, fine you can choose how much to participate, but that does not answer WHY you would want to participate at all.

I mean the Wasatch Accordion Club probably would let me participate at the level I choose, but that isn't a reason for me to join. So, I just don't understand why it would be put forward so much as a reason to go to a church.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2012 11:50PM by MJ.

Sometimes people are comfortable with and enjoy participating in a religion but need to get away from one as cultish as Mormonism.

For myself, as a former Southern Baptist, I had to leave that organization because what they espouse does not line up with what I believe (I'm cool with gay people, black people are fine, I don't believe in original sin etc...) But I'm also comfortable with believing in irrational, unproveable things such as God and a spiritual realm. So I consider myself to be a Christian. I don't know if Jesus was literally God's son but he was a groovy dude who had a pretty sound philosophy and that's something I can get behind. I enjoy believing in God even though I know it could all be make believe stuff.

Most protestant churches foster a very loving and not at all controlling environment, you just find the one that works for you if that's what your into.

Some people swing hard away from their religion and straight into "prove it" style atheism, others are comfortable with more of a middle ground. I'm ok with believing in the possible, the stuff that may very well be pretend. Some people aren't. To each their own :>

Why do you draw people out to stab them in the back. What kind of sick joy do you get from ridiculing someons beliefs.
I gave some brief answers to your question from my point of view.
I don't know there is a god you don't know there isin't a god.
There is no argument I can make that you will accept. There is no argument that you can make to prove there isin't a god.
The very definition of god would have to be discussed.
I certianally wave issues with the strict biblical version of god.
What it boiles down to is this.
I choose to go where I feel comfortable.
I choose to go where I feel appreciated.
I choose to go where I feel safe.
I enjoy knowing where the money comes from and where the money goes.
I enjoy being around this particular group of sincere and dedicated christians.
I find it rewarding and refreshing to see genuine worship of Jesus Christ after having JS and BY shoved down my throat. I enjoy having a choice of participation after having so many "callings" I hated.
I no longer participate out of fear of loosing my salvation or my eternal family.
I am no longer forced to be in so many brain draining booring meetings in TSCC.
The sheer contrast between what I had in TSCC and what I have seen the last few years is worth watching.
One contrast is "Camp Rainbow Gold".

Because I want to.

Christianity helped fill the emptiness after I left.

I'm afraid of a life without God.

I'm afraid of the idea that if one of my children died tomorrow, I'd never see them again...ever.

You can call it magical thinking, or whatever.

I call it a coping mechanism.

...while I (an atheist)personally disagree with you, I do find your frank and unapologetic honesty very refreshing.
It would be so much easier if the only type of religious people I ever had to deal with were ppl like you.
Thank you for your comment! :-)

I've been out of the LDS church for almost 10 years and have been following this website for a couple of years. I've never posted, but I felt like I needed to this time. Personally I made the move from the church and spent a couple of years out and doing nothing. After a lot of research and personal contemplation, I started attending a Christian church in Draper called South Mountain Community Church, and I've now been attending there for about 3 years. When I was LDS, I always had a strong belief in Jesus Christ. I was one of those that truly believed. Yet, when I started to find a lot of the issues with the church my house of faith started to crumble. But, I couldn't walk away completely from Christ. I left the LDS Church because of the issues with the BofM and PofGP, also the Temple and the Masons. Because of the issues with the BofM, I decided that I needed to research the Bible and I simply did not see the same issues with the Bible that I saw with the BofM. Yes, I know that I am still going on faith, but at least I can have faith in a book that actually talks about people and places that existed.

I would strongly disagree with the person that said people only do this for attention. That simply is not what I have seen. You think it's hard culturally and socially leaving the church, try joining another faith. It's much harder! I lost friends and even my wife. But, I will say that there is a great community of thousands of ExMo's that are now Christians here in the Salt Lake Valley. I am very happy with where I'm at!

Instead of discounting mormonism and then Christianity, I discounted Christianity first. Mormonism (as one of its subsets) naturally became irrelevant.

Because it fills my inner longing for something deeper, spiritual.

The mormon church could never touch that and I missed church, real church while sitting in sacrament meetings.