Was just thinking recently of the difference in honesty between Islam and Mormonism. Both have to deal with the behavior of their founding prophet.

Islam sets out his behavior as exemplary - there are a few areas where the prophet has an "exception" and the reason is laid out - for example the prophet had more than four wives and the reason was political. The same exemption has applied to some political leaders subsequently.

The prophet's behavior has left Islam with some very unsavory practices that reformers cannot deal to in many cases because of the prophet's example. The case of child marriage is one awful example. The prophet's marriage to his youngest 9 year-old bride has set the limit for acceptable child marriage in many countries, to raise the age limit would be to cast aspersions on the prophet. If he did it, it must be acceptable. Some reformers have been trying to craft this marriage as an 'exception', with not much success, as it was known to be consummated. The fallout from prophet-sanctioned child marriage on the health, education, and well-being of female children in just appalling.

The thing is though, this is what happens when the faithful owns the behavior of the prophet. At least Muslims own their prophet!

What would happen if Mormons judged appropriate behavior by the behavior of Joseph Smith and following prophets.

I've heard Muslims say "Islam is perfect, but Muslims are not." Wouldn't that also extend to their prophet?

And yes, I'm sure that's where Mormons got their saying.

It's my opinion that Mohammed had two separate "times" in his life. As a young man, he went to work for a Merchant who worked the silk road and was quite wealthy. HER name was Khadija and she was Mohammed's first wife. During this period he was quite feminist for the era. The Q'uran gave women inheritance laws and freedoms in marriage that Christianity and Judaism didn't include until the 20th century.

After Khadija died, he changed. He married "politically." One of his young wives was quite flirtatious and, since he was older now, he became jealous. That's when the "cover your head," "cover your body," "don't speak to men," and "don't look men in the eye" got started. Some women even wear gloves in public, but there's disagreement on whether gloves are a "Western Innovation" or not. (Western Innovation is something to be avoided.LOL)

Genders are not separated until they start growing pubic hair...that's the litmus test for puberty.

If you'd ever like to listen to (what I consider to be) a TRUE Muslim, google "Ahmad Massoud, the Lion of Panjir." I LOVED that man! (He referred to the "Taliban" as, "That Perversion of Islam.")

Interesting, thanks. I'm going to go google that.

So what I was thinking is, what guidelines would we be stuck with now, because of Joseph's behavior?

Marriageable age would be 14 for a start. That would impact on women's education as they generally stop school once they marry.

I think the lifestyle of the fundamentalists would not be too far off in that respect - as an indicator of the outcome of early polygamous marriages.

Mormons HAVE to own polygamy as well. and not as a choice. Joseph was talking angels with flaming swords.

Joseph also believed in signs and miracles and visions in modern times. A lot of that has been reined in, but reading the history of the church indicates that people with vision got taken seriously. Come F&T Sunday when occasional nutters get up and talk about their dreams and visions and everybody cringes - that is actually what F&T Sunday was designed for. For people to share those sorts of experiences.

Then there is the folk magic - the seer stones and astrology and the like. What else should we be "owning", if our first prophet is our exemplar.