I need to vent and perhaps gather some ammunition. On another message board I frequent (not religion-oriented but has various discussion forums), the topic of religion came up. A poster (Poster X) stated that he didn't believe any one religion was the "correct" religion, but some were more "incorrect than others." Another poster replied and asked him how he could tell. He stated the following:


(Poster X):
"For me, and this is just my opinion, I tell when people are willing to blow themselves up in the name of their religion, when their core beliefs involve space beings visiting here or helping establish their religion. When people are so secretive (they say sacred) that even other members of the religion can't get into their own temples, or they insist that Native Americans are somehow related to Middle Easterners even though there have been several DNA tests that show absolutely no link. Or religions that believe there is a spirit in every living thing. Or ones that don't eat pork because it's unclean because they don't recognize the New Testament. Or lots of other religions that I'm not going to go into."


I noted that he brought up Mormonism in the second paragraph and chuckled. But there is this other long-time poster who is TBM (Poster TBM) and always preaching, but mostly apologizing, for TSCC. I try to ignore him, but when he replied with the following, I just had to say something!


(Poster TBM):
"You mean intelligent, but misinformed? The DNA tests are there. I'm headed out now. I will link them when I get back. And the temples are open to everyone."

ACK!!!! How can he just lie so blatantly like that!!! I couldn't help it and replied as follows. I know he will be back to argue further.

(Poster ME):

"Lies. You have to have a temple recommend to enter the temples. Many, many parents have not been allowed to attend their own children's temple wedding ceremony because they could not get a temple recommend. To get a temple recommend, you have to be in good standing with the church and pay tithing, among other criteria.

Don't even get me started on the DNA evidence, but I think it is rather telling that in 2007, the introduction in the Book of Mormon was changed. The introduction previously said that the Lamanites "are the principal ancestors of the American Indians," and the new edition says that the Lamanites "are among the principal ancestors of the American Indians." "

What would you guys say to this "intelligent but misinformed" guy? He's a convert, BTW, which makes him that more virulent in my opinion.

GRRRR!!!!!!! I really try to ignore this guy but I can't just sit back and let him tell lies!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2010 12:39PM by notamomo.

the history of the church (as promoted by the church) is a lie...

the doctrine of the church is a lie...

the people in the church lie to get into the temple...

what can you expect? lies

Think of it this way... you are waiting for the train. The train is late. Do you get upset that the train is late? The train will be late no matter what you do, upset or not. So just accept the reality, "the train is late", and go on living your life.

The reality of the church ... "LIES".

"Mormon Lying" http://packham.n4m.org/lying.htm

Poster TBM:

"Anyone who misses a child's wedding because of a lack of a temple recommend does so by their own choice. Just because there are worthiness standards does not mean they are not welcome. And you're wrong about the 2007 edition. I'm holding a book printed in May of 2010 as I type this, and it clearly says "are the" principal ancestors. And even if it did, it wouldn't refute the claim."

Then he provided a link to lds.[m]org with the DNA apologist crap.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!


Sorry.

now post.. what about non-member parents.. do they have a choice.. they can't get a recommend...

Poster TBM is saying that anyone is welcome in the temple as long as they knuckle under and live the way we tell them they have to live. If they jump through our hoops and bend over and take it when we tell them to, then they can enter our temples.

The other point you might want to make is that Mormons buy their place in heaven. No way around that. If you don't pay tithing, you can't go to the temple. If you don't go to the temple, you won't go to heaven. Period. They can call it sacrifice or obedience or put any other lipstick on the pig that they want to but it's still true that if you want into heaven, you have to pay up. And big brother will be watching to make sure you do.

are kept in the granite vaults in the 'everlasting' hills.

I did note the thing about non-member parents. Here is his reply:

"Lying would invalidate my temple recommend. I said nothing about deserving anything. My parents didn't attend my wedding. They had 12 years to decide for themselves whether they wanted to investigate what I believe. They chose not to. It's not the fault of the church. You of all people know quite well the church would love to have any and everyone come to the temple. That doesn't mean they should have to lower their standards just to satisfy everyone with a grudge.


I genuinely feel sorry for people who live with such hatred. For anything..."

So I told him:

"Wow. You did say it was by their own choice. Become Mormon, pay up ten percent of your income (tithing) and do everything a bunch of old men say in SLC...or miss your kid's wedding. Hell, not only that, miss out on being with your family in the next life too. Nice choice."


And he replied:

"They'll have their chance. But you know that too...
And not one old man in SLC has ever told me to do anything..."

To which I replied:


"Yes, they get to sit in Spirit Prison until they accept the Mormon church."

I think my work is done. Ugh!!!!

And the well-dressed Italian gentleman with the bat never *told* me to pay protection money. He just said "This is a nice store you got here...be a shame if something were to happen to it."

So the old guys in SLC never told that goof ball what kind of underwear he could use? They never mentioned what kind of food he could eat, or what type of language to use? Nothing about how many earrings he could have, or what he could do in his bedroom? No GA ever told him to repent?

I think this person would have no trouble whatsoever fooling a polygraph machine. Everything he says or thinks is run through a TBM brain filter. They'd never even manage to establish a base line.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2010 04:44PM by corrodedinnervessel.

.. a pig but a grunt?

Timothy

First Doubleday, and now the online version of the Book of Mormon at LDS dot Org changed "These are the Principle Ancestors" to "These are AMONG the Principle Ancestors".

All new printings of the Bom will include this change.

IF the church was right and DNA evidence supported it, there would be no reason for the church to make such an important change.