It seems that there's a mindset among some here that it's chicken shite if one doesn't formally resign from COJCOLDS when they discover it's all fake. Even Tom Phillips has been called to task for not doing it.

I am also now totally non-theist, but have no intent of resigning at present. Here's why:

DW believes that even if I'm not active, it still preserves hope of some sort that things will work out in the hereafter for me. Her delusion comforts her. My resigning would be like rubbing salt into her wounds. This holds true for other family members as well. My moral framework includes not causing any other person any mental or physical pain insofar as possible. That sums up why I won't resign.

If someone has a situation where these things aren't as much of a factor, by all means resign.

Whether there's a paper that says I'm a member or not means nothing to me, even though I'd love to "make a statement."
I realize remaining on their books may cause them to try and "re-activate" me from time to time. I actually welcome this as a missionary opportunity to de-convert them! I have rational arguments and really enjoy watching them squirm, really. Also observing the vain arguments of irrational people is amusing. Does that conflict with my previously stated moral argument? A little, but of course those who are less close to me and deliberately come at me with theist arguments are requesting to be cog-dissed. Their discomfort is of less concern.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2012 12:31PM by rationalguy.

Everyone has their reasons and IMO it's not our place to judge those who do or don't for their reasons. I'm of the mindset that our actions should not be dictated by tscc any longer. I resigned because I had my reasons.

When my story hit the media, I was told by a lot of people that I should just have the integrity to resign instead of letting the church excomm me.

Then when I resigned at the exmo conf, I had others that were upset that I didn't keep pushing the church into excomm me.

You cannot please all the people all the time. You must do what is right for yourself and family.

> DW believes that even if I'm not active, it still
> preserves hope of some sort that things will work
> out in the hereafter for me. Her delusion
> comforts her.

Yep, that's what delusions do. The comfort is fake, however.

> My resigning would be like rubbing
> salt into her wounds. This holds true for other
> family members as well. My moral framework
> includes not causing any other person any mental
> or physical pain insofar as possible.

This is one of the things that never fails to rub me the wrong way in discussions about mixed-faith relationships. Being held hostage by a believing spouse through emotional blackmail is not a moral framework, it's a symptom of a relationship where one partner is pushing their beliefs on the other.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that the situation you describe is not easy and there can be many reasons why a person would chose to remain a member in order to avoid some kind of conflict or confrontation. In the long run, though, I believe this can't be healthy.

Every relationship has both partners giving concessions here and there, that's part of a successful relationship. The spouse isn't demanding them go back to church and from the sound of it, this person could remove their records if they wanted but chooses not to.

The same situation exists for parents and family members. If you have parents who are 10-15 years from passing away, does it really gain you anything to potentially upset them in their final years?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2012 02:04PM by throwaway22.

I never considered myself "being held hostage." Other people's beliefs are different than mine, and I can respect that. DW and I get along very well, seldom argue and cooperate in many areas. I make occasional concessions in order to respect her beliefs, and so does she. I even assist her in church callings where my efforts are of purely a temporal kind.

Our relationship is one of mutual respect. The faith difference is perhaps less complex due to the fact that our children are grown up and many live far away.

Another factor is that although she's TBM, her attitude is in many ways duty-driven and cultural. She's in no way a fanatic, just a good person.

I was 8 when they dunked me in the baptismal font. I was a child. I had no idea what I was getting myself into. I was brainwashed from birth.

Formal resignation doesn't make sense to me. The moment I decided I wasn't a member anymore is when I stopped being a member.

If they waste resources trying to locate me because they think I'm still a member, good. Waste away. If they send missionaries to my house, I'll destroy their so-called testimonies until they leave.

I understand some people find it gratifying to receive a letter from COB acknowledging their resignation, but I think it's just paper with gibberish on it. Just like mormon's book.

I do not need their permission to leave. When I walked out the door, I was out.

It is a very personal issue. I would have resigned shortly after my Dad passed away had I known it was possible. I have exmormon.org to thank for that.

Ron Burr

I understand you position. We all do what we need to do.

Consider this though.

When you resign, you are saying the church did not live up to YOUR standards. You broke up with it, not the other way around,

When you are excommunicated, the church is saying YOU did not live up to their standards. They broke up with you.


When you do nothing, it is usually because:

~ You don't give a crud about the church and they are not worth your time (the church interprets this as you not meeting their standards).

~You have the feelings of a loved one to consider.

~You think you can change something from within (you have decided to eat the apple around the worms instead ofremoving the rotton apple from your life).

~You are not able to face the paradigm shift of walking away.

I was like your wife. Early in my marriage I was fully invested. My husband had doubts but didn't press them with me. I'm glad my husband didn't resign or I would have dumped him had I known he did not believe. Over time I caught on and we resigned together. Good luck with whatever course you take.

>>>>>"When you resign, you are saying the church did not live up to YOUR standards. You broke up with it, not the other way around,

When you are excommunicated, the church is saying YOU did not live up to their standards. They broke up with you."<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


But I can say that anyway, to the one that counts. Me. I'm letting me know that henceforth I don't care what COJCOLDS or it's members or leaders think or say. It's totally irrelevant.

I agree, to us it is stupid and irrelevant. And yes, I agree, why should anyone give a cr@p what they think.

However to them, it justifies that they were right and enforces their whole mindset. They continue to go about their way without anything making them think.

They honestly think that all is right with the world because the people who were not a good as them were excommunicated.

I like the idea of doing things that potentially cause a crack in their wall of thinking. I like the idea of messing with them by rejecting them first because they were not good enough.

It all works.

My wife and I are both out and I would really like to resign but she is worried it will negatively impact her relationship with her family. We asked for no contact from our ward and they have complied without issue. I actually wish we could be one if those horror stories I hear about all the time on here cuz then I know she would be on board with resigning.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2012 01:04PM by order66.

I said on another thread that I didn't believe I need to jump through their hoops--but then my daughter was trying to convert me once again, so I did resign.

I've been fellowshipped like crazy lately. I have new neighbors, who are very nice people, but it is getting over the top now. I don't want to do something to offend them, but come on. . . they personally invited "us" to the ward Christmas party (calling it neighborhood) and then brought me leftovers and a plate of goodies from the party last night (the night after the party) and they brought their whole family to my door.

I got banana nut bread the week before. They raked all front yard leaves in October . . .

Resigning does NOTHING to stop the fellowshipping.

Oh--and I got my mom go back to church lecture from my daughter 2 weeks ago.

The reason that I do not resign is that if I just quit going it then becomes a statistic problem for them.

DH and I, plus our exended family, never bothered to resign either.
We simply stopped going once the DNA problems became clear.

The Mormon cult is not worth our effort. We just walked away rather then play their silly games.

Sure, there were efforts to revive us for the cult, lol. They still try occasionally, but we never respond.
Fairly easy to do, though, since we live in a double-gated area.

Maybe, maybe ... I am just so arrogant that I feel my values trump theirs.
To get ex'd for human rights feels right and noble to me. It stands for something to me. It proves to me the shallowness, vanity and self promotion of the church.
I was not raised in the church
My 2 kids don't care
I have no friends in the church
I have no living relatives that I have ever met since 2 years old
I have always pushed buttons and boundaries
My membership means more to them than me

Every situation is wonderfully different and must be handled only governed by your own self. We each make a difference and an impact. all good
I remain, still on the books

I resigned because my SP told me if I didn't he'd convene a 'court of love.' I thought this is a good time to go.

I would have told him to do what he pleases. If they want to ex me, I will not be present.

I haven't resigned because I delight in telling people that I am a mormon priest.
Non mormons seem to be awed by this but mormons and exmos know this means nothing.

That's a hoot.

We all have a legal right to say who can enter our homes and property. Being on a church's membership list does not give that church a right to send representatives to your home if you tell them they can't do that.

I think the church is a criminal corporate racket...but religion in America is subsidized and condoned by the government. The GOVERNMENT itself recognized my membership in the church. I'm in the army and the army formally recognized my denomination, and has a limited (albeit not very) list of the religions it recognizes...ie the LDS church has military chaplains.
To me it was a moral liability to knowingly remain a member...on both the church's terms and the government's terms.
The terms of voluntary resignation were imposed on the church by a court. The church didn't come up with them. It's what you have to do, according to the government, to officially quit.

Of course an irony for me is that I feel no obligation to tell anyone I did it. I still play along sometimes just to be polite.

You can tell the bish.

You can cuss out the SP and say you won't be back.

You can scribble on a napkin and slide it under the bishop's back door.

You can write it on a tin can and leave it on the sofa in the church entry.

You can tell the next person who shows up at your door before you slam it.

OR you can not go there, not pay them, and not take their calls for a few years and file a police report saying you're not a member and want to be left alone.

The law does not enforce church handbooks. Saying you're not a member and refusing to act as a member over time means you are not legally a member of a church. Membership in any church is optional. Quitting is up to the individual, not the government or the the church in question.

I have not formally resigned for two reasons:

1. It would kill my mother.

2. For me to formally resign, it would acknowledge that TSCC still has power over me, and it does not. I don't care if that crazy cult still counts me as a member or not: I have moved on.

Regarding your partner being delusional and failing to resign fostering the Mormon delusion.

This kind of thinking puts you as the sun and everyone else is a planet. They are not behaving according to your gravity; therefore, they will have to exit your solar system.

Marriage is at times a negotiated peace by warring sides who love the same children and want to spare them the devastation of divorce. What is real here?

Two parents living with living children is very real.
Who does or does not believe in Joseph Smith is important only in your heads. (so that can be negotiated away with little tangible loss in favor of living with the children)

Now the consequences in terms of church attendance, that's another point of negotiation--how much, equal time, etc. the ideal being balance with each parent's beliefs respected and each getting complete control of alternate weekends, or some such.

A person might be willing to give up more/less depending on how much they can tolerate sitting in a pew and listening to cult garbage. For some, it is excruciating. For others, they zone out or play games on their iPhone and no prob.

Nowhere in this scenario does it matter if you send an email to Greg Dodge or his successor department of resignation-acceptors. They have created an illusion for you that you may voluntarily leave them. You can create an illusion for them that you still believe. This is all in the realm of delusion and doesn't really matter to the church, but may have actual weight to a spouse.

It is such an easy chip to relinquish in favor of something real.

Mormon women lose status if their mate apostatizes. Hard to believe that matters, but in Mormonism women have so little prestige that status in the eyes of these gossiping harpies is actually important. For whatever reason, clearly the man who chooses reality over illusory "power" is better for that choice.

Mormon priesthood holders do it all the time, by the way, every time they go to a doctor instead of reaching for the consecrated oil.


Anagrammy

I'm BIC from multi-generational pioneer heritage. My name is all over the mormon relational database. Having a "resigned" checkmark next to my name in my personal record doesn't delete it anywhere else....

Having done all the good mormon things also puts me all over the local ward's reports --- as someone who ISN'T doing all the things good, obedient mormons are supposed to do. I kind of like that, being a visible reminder on their lists and reports that there are people like me out there. If I resigned, then I would disappear from those lists.

And, they feel compelled (or at least commanded by the suits in SLC) to visit me. That doesn't go well since they walk away from it in "I know it doesn't make sense so I'll share my testimony" mode. So, a conflict. The big boys tell them to visit; the locals don't want to because of the influence I can give them. I have family and friends tell me I should resign. I suppose that would solve THEIR problem. It's not my job to make their life easier and to conform to their rules so as to have them not to visit me.

Bring'em on, I say. I consider it making up for lost time and money.

I haven't resigned from the church of treehouse rules. It's pointless to me, I simply left.

I'm not sure that resigning means much of anything.

I have been "inactive" for 25 years. Once about 15 years ago I was depressed and went back to the Church to see if that would help. I talked to the Bishop and he said he would have to impose a punishment since I had had sex with my wife before we were married.

At that time, I had been married for 10 years and had 2 children. Made no sense to me that I should be punished, so I never went back to the Church. But they never do anything about it, as far as excommunication or anything, and neither have I, as far as resigning.

If a person feels like they should resign, then they should resign. If a person feels like they should not resign, then they should not. No reason for all to do the same thing about this personal decision.

I haven't resigned yet because I don't want to stir up the family at this time. My in-laws are in the same ward as me.. they would surely catch wind of it(as we all know, there is no confidentiality in Mormonism). I am planning on resigning in the future.

I think resigning is a good idea if you are in the position to do so. I want to so bad!

1) Resigning sends a direct message to COB. It lets them know that someone wanted out and can't be controlled by them. Inactivity gives the cult "hope" that you will come back someday.

2) Resigning is ceremonially reclaiming your freedom. TSCC has abused many. It is a good way to officially reclaim your personal power and live your truth.

3) Resigning is a way of rejecting the "covenants" you have made. Now I am aware that these so-called covenants are made under duress and ignorance. This is a big reason I want to resign. I don't like knowing that I swore to give everything to TSCC in a temple. I know the covenant is phony..but, I like knowing that I officially rescind any and all "covenants" made to TSCC.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2012 03:08PM by gracewarrior.

In my early days at RfM, the Tanners were being sued for publishing the parts of the CHI about resigning. They lost the legal battle but the cat was out of the bag.

Ah, the good old days...

I blame Dehlin. I have always thought that his agenda is to keep people from resigning so he can run his own little cult within a cult. Now he has everybody proudly proclaiming why they remain mormons.

My concern with all of this is that the mormon church is all about behaviour. Belief is irrelevant. So staying without believing really is just staying. It is not a positive action in any way. It is inaction.

Maybe that explains this phenomenon to some extent. Humans are always more afraid to make a mistake by taking action than to make one through inaction.

O well, I guess I'm too old and set in my ways to get used to the new mormon reality so never mind me. It may be black-and-white thinking but as my wife likes to say: black-and-white thinking is what kept us in for so long but in the end, it's also what got us out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2012 04:47PM by rt.

I'm not going to resign because the older I get the more of an anti-Mormon curmudgeon I become and my PTSD symptoms get worse. I learn more and more about how totally wrong the church is and frankly I am waiting for the perfect moment that one sanctimonious bishop jack wagon comes over to call me to repentance so I can just let him have it. I'm so excited and I just can't hide it...