One big reason men are leaving is because the Church abuses them. The Church is being much kinder to the women. Activities are focusing more on women and children, and less on men. The Church sends the message that sin is a man's problem, much more than a woman's problem. Male leaders are harsher with members of their own sex.

Females are actually liking Mormonism because they are treated gently. They no longer feel much guilt about being single. Their career needs are catered to. Men still feel guilty about not being married. Walk into a Deseret Book store and it looks like a female paradise.

Whit this statement you make a lot enemies. Don’t forged woman are Madonna’s and not able to do anything wrong and are always victims whatever topic you choose.
Men are evil beings, always up to something bad and by gender rotten to the bones.
So way do you complain?

Attitude much?

Haha...
I am a male what do you expect?

+1

Thank you!

I think it exploits both sexes. However, I think the church is harder on men in general when it comes to sex. I've seen women just get a slap on the wrist and not told to do it. Then they guy is treated like some kind of predator that's out to spoil the women of Zion...

Total shite.

THAT wasn't my experience!

The best way to let them win is to be a victim who fights with other victims. That's what they want - divide and conquer. We forget the real problems and turn on each other. Great.

+100

I'm 32, single, female. I'm glad behindcurtain broached this subject, because it's been on my mind for years. When I was still a member, I became really irritated every time a man-joke was made about how stupid the men are and how they are distracted from church things, and their wives are spiritually superior. These jokes were usually told by male leaders. As bad as these jokes were for the men, they also felt condescending to me as a female, as if we are in constant need of being reminded of how "spiritual you are by nature! The men have to work for it, those dogs!" I hated it, and refused to laugh politely at these jokes.
It's like Chinese water torture. After decades of hearing these things, the men began to believe them. They begin to act like it. One of the catlysts for my "anti-mormon" research last year, was that I couldn't--COULDN'T--find a man in that church. I had turned 31, and my Mormon dating record was ridiculous. The "men", had been trained to be juvineille, soft, docile, obedient, followers. They giggled when talk turned to dating-and all things sex (as if we ever discussed it out of the bounds of a church manual) I was hungry for a man, but---a real man. These wimpy, soft boys did not do it for me. I needed more than, "Uh, I can take you to the temple". I tried, I really tried--even dated a guy for three months that I didn't like due to pressure from our friends to date.
My last YSA activity was around Valentines' Day, 2011. I went to support my friend, who was 'activities coordinator'. I played nice, but it disgusted my innards to see grown men making valentines and coloring--yes, that was the activity for 20-somethings. I remember thinking, "These guys hate this"--you could sense it--"Why do they do it? Who is going to be thr first to bail?" I would have had a huge surge of respect for the man who did it.
So why do they do it? Why do they stay? Because they get buttloads of guilt if they leave. They get told, "you're not living up to your priesthood responsibilities", and other such
nonsense.
I was always glad to be female in the church, even with the mysoginy; I had enough to live up to without the constant pressure of the priesthood. I have seen my dad's wife pull this @#&* on him, and I hate it. I feel sorry for the men.

Also, I have read dozens of heartwrentching stories from men about how starved they are for sex, but their frigid wives give them harch labels; sick, disgusting, etc. I've read stories from these men about how lonely they are, how bad they feel about their strong desires for their wives...and here I am,a single, lusty, willing, readhead virgin. Sigh...if only....I couldn't find a man in that g**d*** cult. (See my post above)
Good luck to us all, and hey,
AT LEAST WE ARE OUT!!!!!

Women have always been invisible. Men are just expected to pay for the family, pay tithing and be a great Priesthood holder.

You may be interested in Roy Baumeister's article "Is There Anything Good About Men?" I have his book of the same title in my reading queue.

http://www.psy.fsu.edu/~baumeistertice/goodaboutmen.htm

The church exploits both men and women, albeit in different ways. The article discusses our culture in general, by the way, not the Mormon Church, but many of the ideas apply.

robertb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The church exploits both men and women, albeit in
> different ways.

Exactly. Both are exploited. Unfortunately, inside the church, gender matters in how and why they exploit them differently.

The Proclamation on the Family clearly spells out the version of roles the church perceives for fathers and mothers. To wit, they say that men lead with strength and claim that women nurture with gentleness. However, if one reads and compares the archived women general conference sessions and priesthood sessions, it becomes clear that there is a different approach taken for each. Men may be given leadership roles, but they are dressed down by a relentless spray of faults. And it works -- give men praise and they’ll rest Sundays on their laurels; show who’s boss and they rush and stand at attention to take the abuse. Women are persistently honored and placed on high pedestals such that their determined perfectionism keeps them ever reaching for the stars. Take to faulting women as is done with men, and the chapel doors will bust at the hinges with sisters fleeing from such abuse. But it is clear that women are praised yet left underpowered as 2nd class citizens. Men are empowered leaders but always told they better get in line and follow. The system of control is well defined among the top leadership. Most members don’t believe they are controlled, but ask them to honestly answer how important it is to impress other members, especially leaders, and some realize how dependent they are on the church’s view of them or their worthiness.

Exactly.

What's "MRA"?

Cinnamint Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What's "MRA"?


Men's Rights Activist

"Men's rights advocates" - but they're not really men's rights advocates; they are anti-feminists. They are people who think men suffer because of women getting a 'better deal'.

Not to be confused with men's groups who are genuinely into equality



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2013 11:24PM by spaghetti oh.

I've posted a lot tonight, so I'll make this one short--I do agree with the OP. (my experience) I got so darned blasted sick of being "put on a pedestal" where I was safe and no man could get to me. It was as if the men in my branch didn't see me as a woman at all. I was just another Relief Socity sister...and what man wants to date a relief society sister? All the "dont' date" talks my generation heard backfired.
Men cannot be men in that church. They are whipped into small shells of themselves. They are shamed and shamed until the stress gets to be too much and they snap or leave--the sexual repression makes them so damn wierd...and the church is surprised?

P.S. I have also known firsthand some a-hole Mormon men. My former roommate's dad was a major one. Scary man.

I've always been suprised that even though the men hold the priesthood they aren't really aloud to use it. If they are going to bless a baby or baptize a kid they can only do it if the bishop or someone else in authority is watching. So weird. I think it really sends mixed signals. It says "here you get this super neat hero power but we don't really trust you to use it". Keeps men like children. I wanted to have our son baptized in the ocean but it would have been such a big deal to get someone there to watch the whole thing that we just ended up doing it at the stake center. The church creates dependent people.

Best post on the topic so far.
Well said.

I'm of the opinion that men at least have the independence to leave. Before you assume I'm sexist, look at how women are disempowered. Encouraged not to get an education, not to have careers, not to have anywhere to go. Chewed gum. Licked cupcake.

I was abused sure. But at least they needed a breadwinner. What would I have done if financially dependent on my TBM spouse?

So I frankly disagree, but like RJ said, it's not a contest.

Edit: Goddamn autocorrect.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2013 11:19PM by The Man in Black.

On one side of the fence we'll put the people who think the men got a raw deal from Mormonism. On the other side we'll put the people who think the women got a raw deal from Mormonism. Well due to the fact that I'm a man and I definitely got a raw deal then I have to join the men on this one. I have no hard feelings for the "women got a raw deal" coalition because it looks like they were screwed over. However I didn't walk in their shoes so maybe they are just making it all up ;) There is one stat I've often seen the LDS.org website list ..... 47% Male 53% Female. WTF? except it gives more credence to the "men got the rawest deal" philosophy ;)

Again, I think that means men at least can leave and women may be less able to due to disempowerment. Just my opinion.

I agree with Mia: That wasn't my experience, either!

Sure, TSCC abuses men, guilts them, shames them, infantilizes them, and tells them they're naturally less spiritual, patient, charitable, and godly than women.

But -- it's a patriarchy. The men are in charge. They get to tell the women what to do, and the women are supposed to unquestioningly obey.

Also, I disagree that women are punished less for moral infractions. DH, time after time, received only a wink and a slap on the wrist for his serious sexual problems. He lied, denied (even when caught), and refused to get therapy. Bishop told me that I would lose MY exaltation if the divorce was finalized, but DH would get rewarded with many faithful wives and posterity.

A few months later, the same bishop held my recommend for six months because I had a platonic lunch with a male co-worker.

Now-ex-DH held down two callings in the singles ward and renewed his recommend while hosting ladies for sleepovers at his bachelor pad, treating them to B&B weekends, and jetting around the country to visit those he met online. Once he even left a bondage DVD and his man-undies lying about when the kids went to his place for a movie night. When I tried to meet with his bishop, I was refused. Of course, he never even got a slap on the wrist for any of these activities.

Tell me how much worse men have it.

I'm sorry for the scrambled way these are listed. These are just a sampling of the filth about women that is in the Bible. Men are not more abused, not that it's a contest. As a man I have had my fair share of abuse, but nothing compares to the hell women must live through.




"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." (Leviticus 21:9)

"When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her." (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)

"Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean." (Leviticus 12:2)

"But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days." (Leviticus 12:5)

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3)

"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (I Corinthians 11:8-9)

"Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works." (Revelation 2:22-23)

"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Whoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death. He that sacrificeth unto any god, save to the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed." (Exodus 22:18-20)

"Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." (Judges 19:24-25)

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)

"If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;" (Deuteronomy 22:22)

"Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you." (Deuteronomy 22:24)

"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silvers, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days." (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)

"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." (Genesis 3:16)

"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up." (Hosea 13:16)

"Give me any plague, but the plague of the heart: and any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman." (Eccles. 25:13)

"Of the woman came the beginning of sin, and through her we all die." (Eccles. 25:22)

"If she go not as thou wouldest have her, cut her off from thy flesh, and give her a bill of divorce, and let her go." (Eccles. 25: 26)

"The whoredom of a woman may be known in her haughty looks and eyelids. If thy daughter be shameless, keep her in straitly, lest she abuse herself through overmuch liberty." (Eccles. 26:9-10)

"A silent and loving woman is a gift of the Lord: and there is nothing so much worth as a mind well instructed. A shamefaced and faithful woman is a double grace, and her continent mind cannot be valued." (Eccles. 26:14-15)

"A shameless woman shall be counted as a dog; but she that is shamefaced will fear the Lord." (Eccles.26:25)

"For from garments cometh a moth, and from women wickedness. Better is the churlishness of a man than a courteous woman, a woman, I say, which bringeth shame and reproach." (Eccles. 42:13-14)

I agree.
Everyone has to accept or denial Christianity. There is no way in the middle.