My cousin's wife sent me a message on FB yesterday, chastising me for some comment I made (she didn't clarify when, where, or the context) about tithing.

Cousin's wife: <<<<<You made a comment recently that I found disturbing. I would like to share a story with you. When [cousin] and I lived on [location deleted], [cousin] was working commission only at a funeral home. I was the only one who had a steady income of $9/ hour. We couldn't pay rent, pay utilities, buy food. We went to our bishop for help as we had already tapped our parents for too much money. We were given the exact same counsel you commented as "insane". We didn't pay our rent or buy ourselves food. We paid our tithing; a whopping $75 a month. In return the Church paid our rent for us at $500, and gave us enough food for a month. At the time, I couldn't drive to [location deleted] to go to the Bishop's storehouse myself. I had to work. [cousin] worked in [location deleted]. So a woman in out ward drove all the way to [location deleted] for us to pick up our food. That's how The Lord took care of us; through the service of others. Tithing has nothing to do with money. And it breaks my heart that you have lost sight of that, and are now making fun of it so publicly.>>>>>

My response:

It seems that a kind woman in your ward helped, you, not the Lord. The church lies and deceives publicly every day to it's members, and I will expose the lies as publicly as I can. I have tried very hard not to be offensive, but I will not stand by any longer while the church lies. I haven't lost sight of anything, I have found truth.

Cousin's wife: <<<<< I'm so sorry to hear you say that. I know the Church is true. Men have faults and humans are imperfect. But Jesus is the Christ and he is the head of the Church. Jesus showed us his example of how to help others. That's how the lady in our ward was taught, therefore The Lord helped us through his teachings. >>>>>

My response:

You cannot know that. You feel it, you believe it, but you cannot know.

[cousin's wife], the bottom line is that I adore you and [cousin]. I'm sure you feel the same about us. We love all of our family, no matter what religious beliefs (or none) that we have. I'm sorry if us walking away from the church is hurtful to you. Frankly, it's been hurtful to us as well. It ripped my heart out when I found what I found. I didn't want to believe it. I fought believing it.

[sithlord] came to me at the end of June after years of study to tell me he no longer believed in the church. I was stunned and devastated. Within a week, I knew that I needed to find out what his issues were and study each of them from good sources, church approved books, and lds.org and then I could bring him back.

I did study, I read, and read, and read, and sadly, I discovered that he was right. The church has serious doctrinal and historical issues and flaws, and I know beyond a doubt that it is not what it claims to be. It is not the one true church on the face of the earth. I don't want to tell you the issues or problems unless you ask and want to hear them. I'm not here to do that. I was truly shocked at what I found, and I read only good sources. The facts are there to find, but you have to know what to look for because the church is so good at hiding things, lying, and pretending that issues do not exist.

I can't believe for one minute that Christ would tell a single mom or a struggling family to pay their last $75 to the church instead of feeding their family under the threat of losing their temple recommend. I don't believe that Christ would make money one of the requisite conditions before partaking in the most sacred ordinances in the church. I don't believe that Christ would be the head of a church that would leave loving parents ([sithlord's when we got married, and my son's in-laws) standing outside the temple on their child's wedding day because they don't happen to be members of our church. These aren't even my issues with the church, but some of the things I have been able to see since walking away. Christ would never condone that. Christ was loving and inclusive.

I have seen some really sick stuff going on in our ward, humiliating conditions, single moms hounded over tithing. One woman who is a friend of mine planned to pay last year's tithing with her tax return. The bishop said that wasn't good enough, that she had to pay up in 2012 or lose her temple recommend. That is not Christlike behavior, and yes, I do think it's insane. Christ would not stand and exclude a loving, poor, single mother from entering the temple because she is not paid up. It is insane, and seriously messed up. If members choose to pay tithing, it's fine with me. They are not allowed to choose, they are severely punished if they do not pay. That is not what I believe Christ would do, and I will say it again and again.

I know people think we were sinning or "lost the spirit". Nothing could be further from the truth. [sithlord] was on the stake high council, I had three callings, we were doing everything right, FHE, scriptures, church. We both held temple recommends worthily. We handed them over willingly. It breaks my heart to know what I know. But, we are happier than we have ever been because those nagging issues at the back of every LDS person's mind are no longer a bother. They make perfect sense now. We are living an authentic life, and very content. I know you reached out because you love me and I respect you and love you for it.

This is something that we will simply have to agree to disagree about, and if we have to, not even talk about. We love you guys more than anything, and our relationship with you is more important than disagreements over religion.

Cousin's wife: <<<<< I do love you and do respect you for your response. I thank you for giving me the option to ask rather than to just unload on me what you have learned. We do cherish you as family and always will.>>>>>


I have great hope that the things I said will get her thinking and looking for answers of her own. At least I think she is no longer upset at me for my position on things.

Very well done! I really hope that you have made a difference and she will start to think outside the Mormon box.

handled it well, IMHO.

The first question that popped out to me ;

"commission only at a funeral home" ???

Me too, I was afraid to ask. :D

I'm glad we both had a sense of humor about that one....

Some funeral homes have employees whose job is to sell prepaid funeral plans. That could well be commission based.

I think you were really gentle with her. so she knows that you care about her feelings. You only stated a few obvious things like family members of different religions waiting outside of the temple for weddings. It was a really good response.

You were very kind to her, much more so than she deserved.

It's so interesting that many TBMs have no qualms about unloading their beliefs on others, but get all threatened by hearing anything about the actual beliefs of the people they're trying to convert or re-convert.

+1 stbleaving. My exact thought on the double-standard Mormons have about "sharing" their beliefs with others vs. others "unloading" their beliefs on Mormons. Oy!

Well done, TwoJedis. Another excellent example of stating your truth with respect and putting the relationship above religious differences. I see far more exMo's taking this tack with their still-believing family and friends than TBM's do with "apostate" family and friends, but I know there are exceptions.

I hope it makes her curious enough to ask questions or, at a minimum, question what she's been taught about "apostates" and evil "anti's."

Most Mormons do not realize that other churches provide their members and non-member community members with similar "blessings" without receiving a dime from them. Only MormonJesus has a cash register and 10-key for determining who deserves and receives blessings.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2013 04:58PM by Surrender Dorothy.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

I think it is very telling that she thanked you for not unloading on her what you have learned!

Thanks for sharing that.

I remember thinking along the lines of c wife as a TBM. I figured that those who didn't have enough to make ends meet would just pay tithing and then the church would provide aid and help out - maybe even more than paid in tithing.

Now I recognized that this is the exception and not the rule. Fast offerings are spread very thin - a bishop has very limited resources to cover a lot of needs. And the church isn't going to supplement in any meaningful way from tithing funds.

Tom Phillips posted a great thread about LDS Humanitarian finances the other day: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,761497

I have seen it several times but my Christian church will pay all those things and not require tithing. We've sent several single mothers to college and provided food for the needy weekly! We actually hand it out every week in the parking lot. (No questions asked). It's been in the news several times.

Contrasted with Mormonism; you must be mormon, pay tithing or get zero blessings or take away getting to heaven (temple) yes it is insane.

This is the way it should be.

IF it is not about the $$, why do retired grandparents, living on social security and barely getting by, have to pay tithing just to keep their recommend current?

Why doesn't money paid to other charities count towards the 10% tithe? Why does the 10% have to be paid to LDS, inc.....you would think money paid to a food kitchen, or given to poor relatives, would count towards the 10% requirement..

Why are parents allowed to attend temple weddings if their tithing is current, yet they openly break the WoW? The reverse is not true...keep the WoW but don't pay tithing and you are sitting outside.

"We are living an authentic life, and very content."


soooooo true!!! and well said