I'm very frustrated at work right now. The corporate office sent in 2 ladies from upper management to help our office grow and to clean house basically.

What really sucks is that both are über religious. That's all they talk about during down time, and they now end each meeting with a prayer. I tried to walk out before one of these prayers and one of them called me back in halfway scolding me.

If it was any other situation I'd be assertive, but I'm scared for my job if I speak up. I don't know what to do. They already have begun to look suspiciously at me during their religious conversations that I don't contribute to, and I side-step their questions about it.

Anyone experience something like this?

Does your company have a corporate HR office? Someone you can call and report what's happening? Your company may have policies that prohibit religious activity in the workplace.

It's time to move on, if you can. Not because of the annoying religiosity of the two management people, but because they're resorting to prayer to improve the business. People who use magic to run a business are headed for bigger problems. It's stupid business practice. Get out before it all collapses around you.

If there's a corporate office to send them in from, then that corporate office might have a 1-800 "report wrongdoing" number. Call HR and find out.

We had one at my old job. Employees could call an 800 number and report any Wrong they'd seen or heard about. A special committee was set up within the company, from different departments, and they were tasked with investigating all claims and handling the issues. I would call that 800 number and complain that your rights to not practice anyone else's religion are being violated and to you, that constitutes a "hostile work environment." Jesus ladies will get in heap o' big trouble. Be sure to use the words "hostile work environment." No employee of any company anywhere should be chastised, publicly humiliated, and called out in front of other employees because they don't want to participate in some Ax Lady's stupid prayer. Say you are Buddhist or Muslim or Jewish or something.

If you get fired or demoted for this -- because, let's face it, you are complaining about the Ax Team -- that's good. Go get a lawyer and sue their lady pants off. Maybe you'll end up owning that company and it can be "RagingPhoenix's Widget Company."

Yeah, this is definitely within the realms of both hostile work environment and discrimination if they either fire you or even just treat you poorly.

I wouldn't worry about it too much.
I am very openly atheist, and it rubs a lot of people here at Adobe in Utah the wrong way. I don't evangelize or anything, but when people ask (and it happens way more than it should in a professional environment) I am honest.

So:
--Document
--HR
--Then simply tell the people you are uncomfortable mixing religion and work
--THEN if anything happens, you have both given a warning that these advances are unwelcome, and have the documentation to back up your claims.

Likely though, nothing will happen. While people might be push about their religion, they are usually more scared of a law suit regarding religion.

Good luck. That is a sucky scenario.
I often think my leaving the church played a role in my boss trying to get me fired at my last job (he failed, and I then left out of distrust... but he did try)

I understand your frustration and feel bad for everyone having to hold down difficult jobs with bad bosses and terrible hostile policies.

The woman who yelled at you is a religious bigot.

Where is this happening? Is this Utah and the ladies are Mormon?

The reason I ask is that if this is in Utah, the ladies probably just assume everyone is Mormon and are praying and such under that assumption.

Report them to HR immediately. If corporate is in Utah, this might have the effect of getting you fired in which case you can sue. Yes, it's wrong, but I've seen it happen before. Utah is a theocracy and it's pretty easy for companies to operate religiously in a theocracy.

If corporate isn't in Utah, you are golden. As someone else said, make sure you use the phrase "hostile work environment" and "religious rights violation." You'll probably be surprised at how quickly HR moves when you use those terms.

Your comment makes me want to get out of Utah so bad. I don't hate people here, just tired of the theocracy politics.

document, document, document.

+1 The documentation is critical.

Wow - is this in Utah? I literally can't even imagine this scenario. If I was presented with it, I would be irate.

In UTah, I'm wondering if there is much you can do. It seems to be some kind of norm here. I went to a school Christmas lunch with the teachers and they opened with a prayer. We were on school property. IT was crazy!! Nobody said a word although some looked a little uncomfortable.

Apparently in Utah you can be fired for being an Obama supporter (http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/55650985-79/lee-utah-employees-costs.html.csp), but I am certain you cannot legally be fired for your religious beliefs or lack thereof.

If your corporate HR will not help, there are outside organizations, like The ACLU, that will.

Regardless of what you decide, Bite Me is right "document, document, document."

Having worked in a hostile work environment before I have only one bit of advice. Find something (like being forced to listen to prayer against your religious convictions) to file a grievance about. For most of us, this isn't an easy thing to do. BUT, once you have filed a grievance any further action that they try to take against you can be considered retribution for the grievance. If nothing else, this may give you a legal basis should worse things happen, and you need to file an EEOC complaint for religious discrimination.

Especially in a right-to-work state, they can fire you and just not give you a reason, and that is legal. But, if you have a grievance on record, they will think twice about it (even if they were firing you for legitimate reasons).

Friend of ours in a state next to Massachusetts works for an offshoot of Coors brewing, at an engineering/tech firm and this is his reality everyday since his company was taken over by them.

Apparently it is not illegal to have morning prayer or before or after company meetings at any time during the workday. He met be present for the full meeting but is not required to pray. And as long as he cannot prove they are tying religious belief to his not being promoted or considered for advancement, his only real choice is to leave.

They had to give written notice of the fact that they are led by faith and run the business according to their religious principles as that state requires them to do, but other than that they are pretty much free to do what they want as long as they an prove (or their staff cannot prove otherwise) that preferential treatment is given to believers, over non believers, and that everyone is getting state minimum above or better pay, and that they all get the same bennies if they work in the same division or work what they state considers full time hours.

He is now looking for another position but complains about this company every time we speak.

I am not sure how you prove the hostile environment unless you can prove the hostility stems from their acting on your non belief instead of say, your leaving the meeting before it ended or refusing to participate in group settings or projects.

They'll say one thing, you another, and if you're going to fight back you'll need to document, document, document and get witnesses etc, to bolster your side and version of things.

Not that I am saying do not stand up for yourself, or to cave in to what they are attempting here-- but do be aware of what you are up against before you start.

I personally would tell hr directly, stating what I believe to be their dislike of my non belief or differen belief, and any other concerns about that situation, while at the same time I'd be putting my cv out and networking the crap out of all my friends, in preparation for an early departure from the company.

When I worked in the public school system in central Utah (Sanpete) in the 1980s, this was standard operating procedure. Almost ALL meetings were started with mormon prayers, including faculty meetings, school board meetings, and even small committee meetings (where maybe 5 people were in attendance). I did not formally object, but I did express some surprise at the practice after one committee meeting, and it was quetly ended after that (at least as long as I was on the committee).

At least one first grade teacher in Fairview opened her class every day with mormon prayer. She said that she had received an 'OK' from all of the students' parents, and therefore she felt she could disregard and bypass the U.S. Constitution and the U.S. Supreme Court.

Wow... the first story doesn't surprise me, but the 2nd sure does.
Just wow. Prayer in elementary school, led by the teacher. I'm just stunned.

Sounds like they're the ones responsible for the breakage...

Just read a Career Advice article in today's newspaper about a similar situation.

A supervisor preaches on the job, hands out fliers, told a single mother that she was "disgusting" because she didn't have a husband.

The solution is Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, whick prohibits employers from harassing individuals because of their religion -- of the lack of one.

You might to look up the details of the CR Act of 1964 for further guidance.

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/statutes/titlevii.cfm

UNLAWFUL EMPLOYMENT PRACTICES
SEC. 2000e-2. [Section 703]

Take a page from the person who recorded Romney speaking what was Romney's truth about the 47% (to disastrous effect), and have your handy-dandy mini tape recorder at the ready--concealed, of course.

Document this way as well as in a written fashion.

No matter what you ultimately decide to do, that tape could be your ace-in-the-hole.

Good luck.

In many states, it is illegal to record conversations without all parties being aware the conversation is recorded. Check your local laws before trying something like this.

I helped find violations to the union contract by management and help those who were aggrieved with writing up complaints or avoiding that step by talking through the problems.

The workplace can be a mine field. I got good results because of my experience, training and understanding of the different situations and people involved.

There's good advice on this thread, but everyone who is dealing with hostile conditions in the workplace needs to use their good sense and not leap into battle without testing the water and knowing their rights.

EEOC has 1000s of complaints for every one they take on. Management might not know this and a veiled threat in this direction might do the trick.

It's usually better to read the manuals and find where management is violating their own rules. Going over someone's head might be just the thing or it might stir up a hornet's nest and poison the situation worse than expected.

I was aggressive about pushing for rights but used caution and calm logic whenever possible.

Documentation is good and can be as simple as jotting incidents on a calendar or appointment log or on the bottom of a meeting agenda. I'm sad for those who have to deal with these problems. The workplace has turned into a war zone in many cases.

Yea, employers are not 'supposed' to discriminate due to religion, faith, creed, etc. If, and that should be a big IF, the corporation has some sort of religious/christian/faith based articles of incorporation and somewhere it says something like 'employees are encourage or mandated to 'pray.' Good luck with that one.

I teach 'refresher/bonehead' math for students that attend catholic schools in Sacramento on Tuesday and Thursday evening. Students from the several large catholic high schools are funneled into this class so they can 'pass' the math portion of the High School math standards in CA. I had to sign a lengthy contract.

Within that contract I had to acknowledge that I was teaching at the 'will' of the Sacramento Catholic diocese and was subject to certain 'religious' mandates which MUST (wording is important) be adhered too, including allowing prayer in class. I am not catholic; the diocese knows I am a Presbyterian (my TBM status I conveniently left off/out of the interview process).

Another part time employee decided to buck the system and object to all that 'religious' stuff and was duly terminated. She screamed, "I'll sue." She had a very hard time getting a lawyer. She went to the usual suspects; ACLU, gay activists organizations. Those people told her we don't represent individuals in single cases.

This person also went to the Feds. Once the Feds read, in essence, the terms of her contract, they said, (paraphrase) A private employer can set terms of employment, as long as those terms of employment entail maintaining certain principles (prayer, chapel attendance, etc.), they can terminate if an employee does not maintain or support those principles."

This person, scraped together approximately $15,000 and found an attorney. The case did not last too long, the case went to summary dismissal within six months. The dismissal said, in essence, the Sac Diocese is a private employer and they can make their own rules, as long as you know those rules coming in, a person has the right to withdraw from by not signing the contract. Once a person signs the contract......there is no defense against failure to fulfill the terms of the contract.

To the original poster, if it bothers you to pray, stand there in silence. I have students at my public school that are foreign born (not U.S. citizens), I also have students that were Jehovah's people; during the flag salute, they stand in silence.

I have seen this several times in the Sac School district, I was deposed by three attorneys (different cases) and testified twice in court cases regarding 'discrimination' cases.

Is the job worth it to you? While those women pray, sing Yankee Doodle in your head and have a merry day. Personally, I am stuck in my school district. I was offered a head coach job and a teaching job at another district, I turned it down unless I could transfer my tenure. I am not going to leave a job I have held since 1984 to be subject to the whims of a new administrator.

I wish you well, just don't expect too much help from the Federal Department of Labor, or think every attorney that 'specializes in discrimination unlawful termination cases' to line up to take your case; unless you have a hefty retainer.

Document the he** out of it and talk to a lawyer.

http://ffrf.org/faq/state-church/item/14007-religion-in-the-workplace

The practices of your company's Ax ladies are unlawful. Take the time to read this entire page -- don't quit reading because your employer is not a government agency.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2013 12:33PM by saviorself.