When I arrived at YBU from another state I did not understand how the patriarchy worked. I wish I had known sooner or paid closer attention to the warning signs I did have, even if they were small.

A few ways I did not fit in were:

I had no knowledge of LD$ pop music, books, magazines, inspirational talks, etc.;
did not know what a patriarchal blessing was;
did not understand how conservative members were;
was baffled by homemaking, and disliked having someone choose my structured activity for hours on a Saturday like a preschooler (I had my own hobbies, and homework to do);
did not know so much about the temple, and nothing about garments;
I loved the arts, and if I wanted to see a concert, movie or play, and did not have a friend to go with me, I would go on my own instead of waiting to be asked out;
had no clue of the rush to marry an RM by age 20, and why that was so important (I actually wanted a degree) etc., etc.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2011 12:11AM by atheist&happy:-).

I prefer a church [or anything else] where I have a choice of where and when to attend and where I am free to go somewhere else if it isn't working out. Most churches allow this.If you don't want to go to an 8:00 AM service, you can go later or you can attend another congregation altogether if you don't like the one nearest your home.They also don't require that you attend all the auxiliaries if they are not something you care for. You have a choice. What a concept. Mormonisms wants to micromangae everything and they want cookie cutter people. It drove me nuts when I was attending 40 years ago and I hear it is worse now with correlation. Ugh.

I didn't fit in because I am liberal, a feminist, didn't care about getting married, didn't care for Morman art, literature etc, didn't like church sevices, asked too many questions and hated being told what to wear, what to eat and so on. I was pretty well doomed as a Mormon

haha--same. I remember wearing some nice black dress pants to church one day and being cornered in the hall asking if I needed "help" to buy a skirt or dress...yikes. I also remember teaching a RS lesson and using a poem by Kipling or something, and getting a dressing down about how only "church sources" were allowed to be used in lessons. Whaaaaa??

That being said, I feel like I'm a bit of an odd duck anyway. I am a horrible combination of lazy and independent. When I want to do something, I'm too lazy to "organize a group" or call someone up or whatever, so I'll just go and do it alone. I've never felt alone or lonely, and I actually prefer to go to movies alone, etc. Let me tell you, that did NOT sit well in Mormonism. can you remember one time that you were ALONE when you were at church? That's why I've always loved Catholic churches I think..just the ability to go in, light a candle, and contemplate things without making it a group activity is so refreshing to me...

ah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> haha--same. I remember wearing some nice black
> dress pants to church one day and being cornered
> in the hall asking if I needed "help" to buy a
> skirt or dress...yikes. I also remember teaching a
> RS lesson and using a poem by Kipling or
> something, and getting a dressing down about how
> only "church sources" were allowed to be used in
> lessons. Whaaaaa??
>
> That being said, I feel like I'm a bit of an odd
> duck anyway. I am a horrible combination of lazy
> and independent. When I want to do something, I'm
> too lazy to "organize a group" or call someone up
> or whatever, so I'll just go and do it alone. I've
> never felt alone or lonely, and I actually prefer
> to go to movies alone, etc. Let me tell you, that
> did NOT sit well in Mormonism. can you remember
> one time that you were ALONE when you were at
> church? That's why I've always loved Catholic
> churches I think..just the ability to go in, light
> a candle, and contemplate things without making it
> a group activity is so refreshing to me...

Yeah, I am a loner too and prefer to do something myself than to drag someone else along and worry if they are enjoying the event. I also like the Catholic church because, unlike the Morg, it is quiet, pretty and relaxing and nobody nags me , gives me a calling or cares what I am wearing or whether I come back.

And you can go to Mass on Sat night or 4 different times on Sunday and best of all it's max 50 mins...everyone is quiet..respectful of you...

No one ever bothers you...it's peaceful

stormy

judge them, tell them what to do, etc. I remember when our RS president, who was probably younger than me, told me David Letterman was inappropriate. She only had TSCC inspired entertainment. I could not believe it. Of course there were students like me, but not many.

My senior year in high school I read newsmagazines, encyclopedias, etc. for an hour a day, because there were no upper level classes left to take, but also, because I wanted to work for the government like some of my family. At YBU I began to realize I was a more liberal thinker like my mother, and not conservative like my dad. I also saw some of his bigotry reflected in TSCC. I met a few liberal thinkers, but did not fit in, and did not fully change political views until about fifteen years ago. I did not like the LD$ cultural kitsch, but did not mind dressing up for work. I expected to be married one day, but not before my first degree. One cousin delayed her marriage until after her Ph.D., and another was married between her bachelors, and law school. Her husband actually encouraged her to go to law school. This was a foreign idea to most of my roommates.

The brainwashing takes away part of who you are, which I mostly have back now except for too many lost years. Stupid cult!

I was looked down upon for not having children and wanting a career. But quite honestly... I have left the church now, so I really don't give a damn what they think anymore. lol

I bought the whole "one and only" business, but it sure didn't work out for me that way. I was a real romantic at heart, but I just couldn't flirt, I couldn't pretend I was the "Fantastic Girl." I found it very difficult to play "dumb" around guys or try to build their egos (for no reason). My dad was very outspoken, was a free thinker, and had the attitude of "what you see is what you get" and he raised us to all think the same way. He never toed the church line, but believed on his own terms. He then sometimes wondered why we were all such free thinkers! He very much did not tolerate fools!

AND his kids (especially his daughters) are very much that way. I had a very, very difficult time fitting into the mold. I did end up finding a good job. I never wanted to go to school, but did end up with a good job. I earned more than most of the mormon guys I knew and so they were "threatened" by me and by my independence (so that article that others have posted really hit home for me). I refused to worship mormon guys.

Many people wonder why I married who I did--there were many reasons. Two would be that he is extremely intelligent, didn't talk down to me or expect me to worship him. I may have married someone gay, but I was the one who actually had the better marriage.

My parents were ALWAYS democrat and raised us to be so. I had one boyfriend hang up the phone on me when he found out who I voted for. I also always had an attitude towards church leaders and they didn't like it very much.

That article really rang true for me--and I sent it on to my boyfriend (who I dated at age 20, too) to help explain to him why I married who I did and also to explain why my daughter is in the situation she is as a TBM. She REFUSES to given RMs the time of day. Very few mormon guys are worth a second glance (and it just keeps getting worse).

Your daughter is amazing! Good for her! She doesn't need those self-loving mormon men!

She has paid a high price for being an outspoken mormon girl. She is 25 and all her friends are married. There are a few mormon guys who have literally begged her to marry them. One of them said to her, "I was willing to overlook YOUR FAMILY."

My fear is I know she wants to get married, wont' settle for a dud mormon, and has stated she won't marry outside the church.

I think there is an epidemic of girls like her. In fact, I work with 3--all over 30--and wonderful, intelligent people, but also very outspoken and independent. Mormon men are threatened by these type of women.

> couldn't pretend I was the "Fantastic Girl." I
> found it very difficult to play "dumb" around guys
> or try to build their egos (for no reason).

I am like this too. I am myself, and a lot of them find that threatening. I cannot put on an act.

My dad was conservative, but did teach us to think for ourselves to a great degree. Ironically he made chauvinistic comments about a female postal worker, but wanted me to be a chiropractor. He did not do much to help with my formal education, but did not discourage me either. My mom was working before she met him, and was the City Clerk, which did not bother him. My interest in science, and learning was encouraged, often by neighbors, and friends of the family who also encouraged their daughters to get an education. I do not see this in Utah, instead they push them towards homemaking, instead of sending them off with college geology students on field trips.

> I refused to worship mormon guys.

I never had a clue they wanted to be worshipped, but would not have anyway.

> Two would be that he is
> extremely intelligent, didn't talk down to me or
> expect me to worship him.

That's rare, because there are some wolves in sheep's clothing in TSCC. Some of the worst LD$ men are the condescending nice ones. They appear to be more liberal towards women, are intelligent, and usually won't talk down to you, but they will put you in your place by their actions. I think of them as aristocratic types, because they have a strong belief in hierarchy, and privilege. It may take a while to find out what they are really like.

> I had one boyfriend hang up the phone on me
> when he found out who I voted for.

That's funny, because my mom would always refuse to tell my dad how she voted. I think it was to keep the peace. It was the ritual at every election. They would be come home from voting, he would ask her, and she would tell him it was none of his business in a nice or funny way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2011 10:51PM by atheist&happy:-).

Oh yeah. Definitely. I only made it till age 18 in the church, but all my teen years the ward members tried desperately to force my square peg into the round hole of mormon womanhood.

I was told:

God did not want me to be a doctor, but a mother.

That "why" was a question I should drop from my vocabulary and just accept what I was told.

That if I ever wanted to get married, I shouldn't beat boys at sports and shouldn't let them know how smart I was.

And, my personal favorite, I was constantly criticized for not smiling enough. Now, anyone who knows me, at ALL, knows that I am a happy-go-lucky person. I'd prefer to laugh than to cry. The problem was, when I was at any kind of church activity, I'd simply "think myself away". Well, when I'm thinking, I'm not usually smiling. And the only way to survive a 3 hour block is go send your mind elsewhere, ya know?

Anyway, yes: too independent; think too much; aren't feminine enough; don't have enough homemaking skills; too interested in worldly academics; prideful; stubborn; and refused to take spiritual direction from the "spiritual giants" in the ward.

Whatever. They can all suck it as far as I'm concerned.

That's a good one--I was told I didn't smile enough either. I was also treated very poorly by as*hole mormon men at the place I worked. There were actually some good mormon guys who worked there--and I'm still friends with them--but most of the mormons asked me questions like "why aren't you married and having children?" I was treated very poorly by one of the higher ups (who was a stake patriarch at quite a young age) because no good mormon girl would work at that place. Why was he working there then?

I'm one of those women who smiles way too much, anyway. When I was younger, and perhaps had another type of expression on my face, someone might high-handedly tell me to smile! Why on earth? Maybe I was feeling sad about something or other. Am I supposed to walk around like a grinning fool all the time?

How many men are constantly told to smile?

After a whole year of wearing the holy g's I was done with those things, and I don't even remember how many lectures I got on that. Even talking to a male friend, who was ONLY a friend, was seen as scandalous because I was married. I hated going to RS meetings and activities because I didn't want to freaking knit or scrapbook or learn how to make pumpkin soup. Those are things that I would pick up on my own if I felt like I needed to do it. Someone shouldn't have to be forced to learn crafty things with people they have nothing in common with. My comments weren't appreciated. My independence was constantly being criticized. I never wanted to get up and share my testimony and I turned down invitations to give talks. The leaders were constantly asking when I was going to have children. I felt that every aspect of my life was being controlled by the organization, and since I lived with a very controlling mother all my life, I strongly resisted this kind of situation.

My daughter who is 20 is still recovering from the trauma of the YW program she attended from age 12 through 15.

What the Mormon Church does to women is reason enough to quit and run away as far and as fast as one can.

One of my heroes growing up was Barb Keller. She was, and is again, a member of my TBM parents ward in OH. She is very well educated, outspoken, and never backs down in the face of stupidity. She had the guts to speak out in favor of ERA, women and the priesthood, etc.

She's had to put up with a lot of judging from TBMs.

If we were in a classroom my hand would have shot right up. Am a feisty brunette, and I had short hair at the time. I am also a Democrat. Who would care to guess how many dates I got when I went to the singles branch?

I definitely didn't fit the Molly image as I wore nice slacks the first time I went to that church. I was also asking too many questions and talked to the bishop in the foyer instead of letting my TBM ex-husband do the talking, something I noticed as the bishop refused to make eye contact with me and looked at him instead. I was also more independent and wanted to delay having children until they could be supported, and I refused to settle for a "Mrs" degree since I didn't drop out of college when I got married. I took a required class for my major that was only held on the same night as RS activities so I was judged for that as well, especially as I have never had an interest in scrapbooking or quilting.

I sure felt marginalized because as I convert I had grown up thinking for myself and making my own decisions and being very outspoken. There were some women who appreciated my candor but there was also lots of resentment from the nazi molly morman types. This is one of the reasons I left the LDS faith.

Relief society. Is it ALL crafts and quilting and cooking and homemaking? *Shudder*

So how was relief society for all of you "rebels."?