I sat in the waiting room of an OB/GYN clinic in Rexburg yesterday and "people watched." It is fascinating to observe mormons in their natural habitat, but at a safe enough distance. What I saw repeatedly was young couples coming in and going out, all of which had young children in tow. It stressed me out to watch one very pregnant woman in particular reach into her baby bag and retrieve a bottle for the baby her husband was holding. The baby looked to be one year old at the most. Even more disturbing was that a slightly older toddler hung off his dad's pant-leg. The toddler's pull-ups were sticking out of the top of his pants and upon seeing this I literally became nauseous. This little family would very soon have three in diapers, two on bottle/breastfeeding and no doubt the young woman would be the sole caregiver because her husband was most likely going to BYUI and working a night job. I could see the unmistakable garment lines on both of them and I truly felt pity.

Before I left the clinic, I saw a husband and wife exit with three little ones under the age of 5 and the wife about ready to pop with number four. I think what really bothers me the most about seeing this kind of Baby Machine Mentality is that I come from a TBM family of nine siblings, the oldest was only 16 when the youngest was born. Big families create difficult hardships in so many ways, however, mormonism was the reason for our big family and now only my parents and two other grown children still attend church/pay tithing.

It sickens me as I watch rank and file members do what the church leaders teach thinking it will get them to the celestial kingdom, but really it only sets up environments of neglect, harbored resentment, physical and emotional abuse and more. All this for potential future tithing payers.

Brood mares. And they pay a bunch of $$ for the opportunity. Since the conversion and retention rates are in the toilet, the church has to push for a higher birth rate.

Do you think it is getting worse--so many babies close together? Many of the people my age and older did have a lot of children, but they SPACED THEM OUT. My mother's children were mostly 3 to 4 years apart. The closest in age were my older sister and I at 17 months apart and SHE NEVER did that again. Even my TBM friends--most of them had quite a few years between children. I see more and more young girls having one right after the other.

I don't know that it's getting worse, but I do feel it's a BYUI or BYUtah thing. I think it's the ones that went on a mission, came home and married their awaiting girlfriend, enrolled in college and began the baby bakery. It's what mishy's are taught at the end of their missions: go home, get married, start a family, go to school--It's what the lawrd wants you to do. Oh, and pay your tithing.

There were plenty of families in my old ward that fit the bill and had several kids, bang, bang, bang. Not every man was an RM, but the kids were all born during the college years. And they graduated from one of the BYU's.

The rest of the general member population of newlyweds seem to start having kids right off too, but often space out the births more.

I was one of them. We stopped at #4. We had 4 kids in 6 years.

My sister JUST had her 4th and her husband wants #5 by next Christmas. She is on antidepressants.

I feel so bad for these women.

She was someone who lived a wild teen life and had one child out of wedlock with a looser. Then, met her "wonderful" husband on the internet (LDS singles) and they were married two months later, in June, 2006. She proceeded to get pregnant on the honeymoon. Then, as soon as baby #1 (from this spouse) was 3 weeks old, got pregnant with baby #2. When baby #2 was 3 weeks old, same thing...baby #3 was conceived. When baby #3 was a month old, baby #4 was conceived. So, that is a total of five children. Four of whom were born within three and a half years. Absolute insanity....she works at Wendy's and he has no high school education, but did have a good job with his family, until the economy tanked. Of course, they HAD to have the $300,000 house in their parent's neighborhood.

I honestly have no clue how they survive....

Can you take the antidepressants while you are pregnant or trying to get that way? I would think not so much and that seems like it would open women up to psychotic PPD. Sounds really dangerous.

There are some antidepressants you can be on--Zoloft I believe is one. My niece was on it while pregnant.

so the fetus is hopped up on pyscho active meds literally from day 1 ! HOLY CRAP! how does that turn out!

I was on them for my second pregnancy. I was told they are safe, but my daughter- who I was carrying, has some behavior issues. Was it the drugs? Who knows.

All anti-depressents are what is considered Schedule C drugs for pregnancy. In other words, they DO cross the placenta barrier...but they really don't know what the effect is.

Its one of those decisions you have to make....is being OFF the meds going to cause undo stress and issues that are harmful to the baby?

Some people attempt to be without them completely...some choose to take them under a doc's supervision....

I'm thinking most of the Top Guys didn't have humongous families (or did they?). So why do the rank and file think THEY are responsible for populating the mormon church if the authorities don't?

My sister nor her husband went to any of TSCC's universities and they had 11 kids. My sister kept feeling like there was one more beyond the veil waiting to be born into her family.

I wonder if other Colleges and Universities nation wide have such an influx of young married parents and if they are kicking out kids. Also, Catholic's aren't supposed to use birth control and often have large families. However, do they usually have the kids so close together like mormons? Any former Catholics on the board?

fearguiltpromise Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder if other Colleges and Universities nation
> wide have such an influx of young married parents
> and if they are kicking out kids. Also, Catholic's
> aren't supposed to use birth control and often
> have large families. However, do they usually have
> the kids so close together like mormons? Any
> former Catholics on the board?


Currently Catholic-and we are allowed to use birth control--just not artificial birth control. And we also have what is known as the 'rule of conscience', which is complicated and you need years of theology to really, truly understand, but suffice it to say: read the Humanae Vitae document rather than rely on the media for your information on Catholics and birth control.

Meanwhile, the Catholic Church doesn't expect its members to pump out baby after baby--it does expect its members to control their fertility in a way that respects life (which means nothing to those of you who are athiest, I know--'nuff said.).

Which is why modern Catholic famlies have the usual 1.9 children per family--and those of us who have more usually (not always, there are some fanatics and nutcases as there are in all religions) do so because we want them.

Catholics are forbidden to use artifical birth control...however...you don't see huge families at Mass and you see them nicely spaced..2-3 yrs...I haven't seen a young toddler and new baby yet...

Are they practicing no artifical contraception...assuredly they are...even our Parish priest knows that...or there would be a heck of a lot more babies.

Our two, just two, are three years apart and we sure did use birth control...

stormy

...ignore the church's ban on artificial birth control. I think that the ban was one of several things that caused rank-and-file Catholics to take the pope's pronouncements somewhat less seriously, and to start using more of their own judgement. You also have a very large denomination with a range of opinion on various topics. Having such huge numbers makes control a lot tougher. And Catholics only rarely excommunicate their members.

You see the occasional large Catholic family (I remember two families with a dozen kids each in my high school,) but it is rare. Most modern Catholic families wouldn't look that different, in terms of numbers, from any other subgroup. Also, there is no pressure from the church to have a large family, or to start families before one's education is completed.

I was Elders Quorum President in a ward 12 miles from BYUI. Within the ward boundary was a large government subsidized housing complex. Most of the tenants were BYUI students with at least one child. Many had several kids.

All of them were getting food stamps, WIC, and supplemental income from the state. The doctor bills were always paid by Medicaid. Our bishop encouraged them to get as much welfare as they could from the government because the ward fast offering budget was the Lords sacred funds.

Now, I don't have a problem with people trying to improve their lives using welfare. That's what it's for. Here's the problem. The church tells its young married members to bring lots of spirits into the world and the Lord will provide.

When the lord gives them the shaft, they have to rely on Uncle Sam to bail them out.

When my ex and I were married....just married...the family doctor about had a stroke just writing the script for bc pills...I heard the you need to start your family NOW...what a joke and use what for money...he was still in school but I was done...no way...and a good thing.

stormy

mo2atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was Elders Quorum President in a ward 12 miles
> from BYUI. Within the ward boundary was a large
> government subsidized housing complex. Most of the
> tenants were BYUI students with at least one
> child. Many had several kids.
>
> All of them were getting food stamps, WIC, and
> supplemental income from the state. The doctor
> bills were always paid by Medicaid. Our bishop
> encouraged them to get as much welfare as they
> could from the government because the ward fast
> offering budget was the Lords sacred funds.
>
> Now, I don't have a problem with people trying to
> improve their lives using welfare. That's what
> it's for. Here's the problem. The church tells its
> young married members to bring lots of spirits
> into the world and the Lord will provide.
>
> When the lord gives them the shaft, they have to
> rely on Uncle Sam to bail them out.


You are kidding me. I grew up in the old school church where if you got on federal/state welfare they church leaders would kick you square in the ass. Ezra Taft Benson especially. So much for being the people who are going to stand up and save the country.

Rexburg is loaded with HUD apartment projects. They are everywhere. I think this is great for those who need it, but it is very abused by the University in my opinion. Chuck-full of young marrieds with no education and too many children, working too many jobs and wasting too much time on crap required classes. Bishops DO encourage this.

The housing isn't bad. The problem is it's coming from tax dollars and many of the people who live in them may never have the means to leave. Plus Rexburg is cold as hell.

I believe in free agency. If some people choose to be stupid then they have to live with it. Glad I'm out of that nutcase program in a world full of many other nutcase programs. Buy some pharmaceutical shares. The Prozac sales will keep going up.

are on Medicaid. Medicaid pays for OB quite well, so the dr's are fine with it. Since the students don't pay anything for it they are fine with having several children with no medical costs to them. We are paying for them.

They also get government subsidized housing and food stamps, and help from WIC.

No doubt there's a lot of propagating going on, but isn't this akin to reporting having been to a baseball game and saw lots of rabid fans?

Just sayin'...

Ron