I have left the church, but people just can't understand why. I say, "The church lied to me. It taught things that weren't true."
They say, "Well, they don't teach those things any more. You never hear them talk about polygamy or even the Book of Abraham." They say, "Surely there are things about the government that you don't like. They lied about WMDs. They hide things about the drones now. There are a lot of secrets. Surely you don't like every president we've ever had. But you aren't leaving the country. Why do you have to leave the church when it's just doing the best it can?"
"Besides, look at the Catholic church. Look at all the skeletins in that closet, and people still remain Catholics. Why do you have to be so stubborn and leave the church?"
None of the presidents claim to have direct discourse with God, nor do they claim to speak for him.
The Catholic argument doesn't make sense, they have already pointed out all the fallacies of being Catholic and how dumb people are to believe it. So is their argument that they're wrong too so you should stay?
No one ever tried to convince me that the government was established by God and the source of all truth. I expect the government to make mistakes. I can accept that. I can't accept that a church that claims to be led by Jesus Christ himself from heaven through a prophet, seer, and revelator, an organization that promises that the prophet can never lead the people astray, and claims to be the most perfect organization on the face of the earth, can be so riddled with lies and corruption and could have been originally founded by deceit. I don't know why people remain Catholics. I wouldn't. You'd have to ask the Catholics.
I think the bottom line is that talk of Governments and the Catholic church (or any other church for that matter) are merely "Red Herrings". The point is that Mormonism has been sold as the "Only true and living Church" on the face of the earth. It has been sold as the actual Church of Christ with the head of the Church being Christ. It is in essence, infallible.
Few other churches or governments sell themselves as the actual representatives of the Honarable Jesus H. Christ....with the authority to act in his name. If ANY part of Mormonism fails then the whole house of cards tumbles down.
While the USA is a "land choice above all others" it is limited in it's goodness and therefore can't be expected to be perfect. Although it would be nice if it was. The Bottom line is that our government is not "personally led by a Prophet who actually is supposed to "commune with Jehova" and have all the answers.
The Church claims that it is the one true religion on earth and the only way to return to live with God is by jumping through all of its hoops. The Government is simply an entity that is necessary in order to make its citizens' lives run as smoothly as possible while maintaining order.
Essentially, the Government is necessary, while a church is not. If the church's claims are false, why on earth would anyone want to be subject to its ridiculous rules? The Government on the other hand attempts to be fair to all and is not claiming rewards in the afterlife if we remain obedient subjects.
And while the Church and the Government may both have skeletons in their closets, corruption cannot prove the Government false, which is certainly not the case with the Church. Also, while we all may hate certain things with both institutions, at least the people have a voice with the Government and have the power to change it. As the Church claims authority from on high, movements for any sort of change from the membership usually end in humiliation and/or excommunication.
One True Church, concede LDS is a social organization that discusses spiritual mysticism, is run by a top-heavy, justice over-mercy patriarchy, and is not universal and exclusive in its' value, then it can be just that little cult in Utah that people choose because their loyalty to dead family
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2013 02:17PM by gentlestrength.
When I converted to Mormonism the only things I had to "Believe were True" in order to be Mormon were:
1) Joseph Smith was a prophet 2) The Book Of Mormon was true (i.e. what the church said it was) 3) The current president of the church was a prophet
I guess if someone put it to me like they did to you I would just say, "To be an honest Mormon don't I have to believe J.S. was a prophet, the Book of Mormon is truth and not fiction, and T.S. Monson is a prophet of God?" If they say "Yes". Then you say, "I don't believe any of those things and I want to be be honest in all my dealings." If those things don't matter then what does being a Mormon mean?
If they have any other answer I would respond that any religion that allows its members to believe one way and preach another way is seriously screwed-up and you don't want any part of it.
With regard to the USA:
The president doesn't claim to be a prophet and nobody is told they should not criticize him. There are checks and balances to reign in his power. Government makes mistakes but the media can do it's best to uncover the truth. The government cannot hide how it spends its money. There are laws that require it to disclose where tax money goes. If someone in government hides spending or spends it illegally they go to jail. The Constitution is the main document that governs the U.S.A. It does not claim to be written or translated by superhuman means. It can be changed by law if it is no longer doing its job. The U.S.A. doesn't tell me what I cannot eat, wear, or where I must get married. It doesn't tell me to read certain books or pray until I agree with it. None of those things are true about Mormonism.
With regard to catholics:
That's a whole different kind of crazy and not worth going into.
Mormonism and its scriptures are not what they plainly claim to be.
Very few Mormons believe the science and history related in their scriptures, and those that do live in a reality distortion bubble - believing in a young earth, the global flood, the tower of babel and the like.
The rest have to practice some form of cognitive dissonance reduction. It is not healthy.
You don't need to do those things with government and non cult religions. You can agree to disagree with government or the Pope. Core beliefs required of Catholics are metaphysical - they don't need to believe things proven false.
Most churches do have weird stuff in their history and most churches try not to focus on the weird stuff. Agreed. So basically what the TBM is saying is that Mormonism is no better or worse than any other man-made religion on earth. In that case, why is it so important to them that I conform and be Mormon? And how dare Mormonism ask for so much more than other churches re: time, money, obedience etc. if they what they have to offer isn't better than what other churches have? Finally why isn't it OK then if I belong to whatever church if Mormonism is just like any other?
At this point, Mormons will probably claim they have stronger families or better morals or happier lives but that's just B.S. and comes from spending very little time with those in other religions. If they realize other religions have people that are just as good as Mormons, they'll revert back to it being "God's True Church." Remind them then that if they want the perks and requirements of being the one true church, they don't get the "get out of jail free" card issued to churches who know they are just man's best effort at understanding what God might be.
I think it is they who are being stubborn to stay in. That's quite a stretch to use Catholic behavior as an excuse to stay Mormon when Mormons claim to be the only true religion.
My response would be, "Why do you keep looking so hard for reasons to excuse inexcusable behavior?"