I think I have mentioned this before but as a review. I support my wife/kids and attend church for 2 hours then sit in my car for the 3rd each week(not ideal but it works for us). I work on her little by little. My saving grace is that is the only time we ever even mention church in our house in a week. It could be a lot worse, I've learned to pick my battles

In the mean time things like this just piss me off. A couple months ago a TBM says

Brother Dick-hi brother Matrix I am your home teaching companion.
Matrix-ok good luck with that.
Bro Dick- proceeds to tell me about our families and I listen politely then tell him I need to go.
Get into Sac and mrs Matrix sends me a text
Mrs Matrix- did you know your HT comp is the husband of my VT comp? Crazy eh?
Matrix- oh sh-it the full court press has begun.

Next week Nfl playoff week he comes up to me in Sac and says
Bro Dick- I have made some appointments and asked if I would go. Matrix- no thanks I am busy.
Bro Dick-Well what are you doing?
Matrix-None of your fu-cking business...wait did I say that out loud? I am watching football today and will not be going.
Bro Dick- that's why I have a DVR
Matrix- good luck with that I'm more of a live sports guy

Next week-
Bro Dick- I have another appt today
Matrix- I'm busy no thanks
Bro Dick- well I'll keep asking :)
Matrix- I'm done with this bullshit

Email sent to EQ prez
Matrix- please take me off the HT list
EQ- everything ok
Matrix-couldn't be better just real busy

2 weeks go by and suddenly HT are visiting me. We sat around for 45 min talking about the weather. That's when you truly know a forced friendship.

Fast forward to last night. Mrs Matrix arrives home from a night of visiting forced friendships.
Mrs Matrix- So your HT comp has appointments set up this week.
Matrix- really I'm not even his companion any more.
Mrs. Matrix- Really, he was asking if you have a problem going HT. but I just said you are real busy.
Matrix- ok thanks, thought about a million things to say but didn't want to fight so conversation ends but I am pissed.

First off my wife never would have seen the husband so he sends his wife to talk to mine about my problems with HT? Come to me directly you bas-tard.

So that is where we are at. How would you proceed. Keep in mind that keeping the piece with Mrs M is very important to me. She knows where I am at spiritually but I try to keep it between us and respect her beliefs.

Leave Mormonism now. Do not pass Go, do not collect 200 insults.

If you say you can't leave because of family, does that sound like a functional family? Many families could use some work. Any Mormon family could use a reality check, at least.

Functional? All families have pieces of disfunction?
Giving up my awesome wife and 2 sweet little children because we have different beliefs than my children, simply isn't worth it.

aren't going to be a home teacher anymore? And next time he asks, tell your companion that you aren't his companion anymore.

It's your life, so take charge. Don't just evade the nagging and manipulation. Just say "no thanks, not doing it, find someone else". As long as you don't flame anyone in the ward, your wife can not reasonably have a problem with that. Doing your HT is NOT an obligation to her, and in fact it takes time AWAY from the family. You have the right to choose how to serve (or not serve) others in your life.

Evasiveness makes you look irresponsible, both to your wife and to the ward members, and I don't think that's the case. You clearly think that it's not a worthwhile use of your time, and I think it would be better if more people would speak up and say so.

Nobody wants home teachers to come over. It's just a drain on everyone's time.

If you are not willing to say, f*** off -- I want nothing to do with the church. You might say you are burnt out and want a break from church, and harassing you won't help and will only makes things worse.

This reminds me of fighting with my cats. You either give in, ignore them and when that doesn't work, get the spray bottle.

I recall when my Dad was a non-member. He worked as a scout master, turned down numerous missionaries. Threw one out of the house that came in disguised as a home teacher.

He was good at just saying "No" " No Thanks" Never gave expainations. If asked "Why not?' He would say " Oh, you don't need to know why, you just need to know the answer, and it is No Thanks". Ect.

But my mom wore him down. Twenty years of sniffling through her prayers from the other side of the bed each night, that he would join the church got to him.

I was 15 yrs old at the time we all got sealed in the SLC Temple. I think Mom was going Phyco on him as we got older and her fear of his non member example influencing us was starting to effect their marriage. So he caved...

Sorry didm't mean to ramble. Point is, they had a better than average marriage. And it didn't stop me from leaving later.

You said your wife knows where you are spiritually yet she is acting in a very conflicted way by telling the priesthood you are "just too busy" to do HT. At the same time she is talking to you as if she expects you to do it. She is playing both sides so I think the most important thing to her is keeping her marriage together while at the same time looking like a TBM faithful family to the ward. You, on the other hand, are trying to keep your family together while also trying to maintain a certain amount of self-respect and integrity.

Maybe you two could have a talk about how you both have the same number one priority, marriage and family. Then you both need to come to terms with what each of you needs from the other on the second priority. Sounds like you are tired of playing games with the ward but she's happy for the game to continue for the sake of appearances. You can't keep blaming the TBMs because their behavior is programmed by LDS, Inc. and you know it. They are still drinking the Kool-Aid and you are choking on it. The only person you can control in this game is you.

Personally, I'd tell your spouse how much you love her, even more than church or country. Then I'd try to call a truce. The question is: How much church activity is the absolute minimum you require of me and what is the maximum pretense I'm willing to put up with. Then abide by the mutual decision.

Going to church meetings every week sounds like your wife's minimum requirement and you can go with that. You are seen with your family and your wife gets to be seen with her faithfully attending husband. But when the other stuff comes up like callings, activities, assignments you are going to have to firmly and nicely (nicely is for your wife's sake) decline. I don't see why you have to come up with bogus excuses. Just say, "No!" And when asked why, you can say "I prefer not to discuss it. Thanks."

No matter how this plays out I think it is only a matter of time before the big meeting with the bishop rears it's ugly head. If it happens I'd just turn down the bishop by saying, "No,I can't meet with you." Follow it up, if necessary, with "I cannot discuss it with you at this time. Thanks." End of conversation.

Sure wish you luck and hope your wife will someday soon see the light.

Cali Sally Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> husband. But when the other stuff comes up like
> callings, activities, assignments you are going to
> have to firmly and nicely (nicely is for your
> wife's sake) decline. I don't see why you have to
> come up with bogus excuses. Just say, "No!" And
> when asked why, you can say "I prefer not to
> discuss it. Thanks."

Ok, this is not serious advice, plus I'm a nevermo. But what about all those LDS fables about the elder who gets a secret mission calling? Play it right and I could see the Emperor's New Clothes syndrome setting in; even your bishop would be afraid to admit he didn't know your Supar Sekret (I mean Sakred) calling.

(Again, this is not a serious suggestion. The fallout if caught would not be good for your marriage. Given their missionary attempts, that ship has probably sailed anyway.)

Tell whomever is in charge of HT (EQP?) that you won't be doing it. Then when your "HT companion" tells you that he has set up appointments, respond that you hope he enjoys himself. Don't say that you can't do it, don't make an excuse. Just act like he's sharing some detail of *his* life with you. Ignore him if he pesters. Change the topic of conversation or just walk away.

And quit entertaining church visitors. Don't let them in the door unless your wife wants visitors. If she's entertaining church visitors, greet them briefly and then find something else to do.

In the real world, once a week attendance at church is more than enough involvement. Give yourself a break.

Cali Sally-

Nicely put.

Sounds like good advice to me!

Why not just resign? You could still keep going to church with your wife and kids if thats what you and them decide is best. But make that decision for yourself, that you're no longer a member of their false church and have no obligation to put up with any of their crap.

He's said that it's important to his wife that the family maintain an image of faithfulness. It's probably a mix of hope he'll change his mind, and a simple desire to avoid the condemnation/pity/othersocialbullshit from everybody. He loves his wife.

This email was sent last night to the EQ Prez. Note that I did send him one a month ago asking to be removed.

HQ Prez,
Hey can you make sure that I have been taken off the home teaching assignment list? For some reason I was still asked about going out with a companion the other day. Perhaps it was due to an end of the month thing when I let you know, so I just wanted to make sure it has been taken care of.

I wouldn't doubt if the HT comp told the EQ pres last month not to remove us because he is "working on me". Oh the fun of having the mind out and a toe in.

Thanks for the advice I like see the wide range of thoughts. I'm in a very unique situation. My wife was baptized at 8 and always has gone to church by herself. Her family let her do it but tried to discourage it. It's really that piece that makes her go in my opinion. Just because its what made her feel different. Her family is awesome and i have found it easier to get along with them being nevermo's than my own TBM fam. I made a promise to always be with her at church and its something I intend to keep. Even though latley she has told me that I don't need to go with her. She doesnt really even like church and hates the
social side of it all. Never really studied the scriptures and just plays games on her phone at church with me. We sit in the back in both meetings. she just simply says she feels good while we are there. For me Sundays are a family day and I will be with them on that day whatever they choose to do.
For some you can't take down their Mormon wall in one sweep. It has to be brick by brick until they see the truth. My goal has been to be the best possible loving husband I can be and show to her that her non believing spouse is 10 times more loving and caring then the ones she sees in the church

Hey, Matrix, I hear you!! I get a little defensive (okay, a lot) when some posters don't understand the position we are in with our TBM families and think that all our problems would be resolved if we would just resign already. While that may work for some people, it doesn't for others. I know it would absolutely break my husband's heart and drive a wedge between us that could never be fixed. It took him years but we are to a point where he no longer lectures me when I 'disappear' just before the HT come over. I did have to quit attending church altogether to finally be left alone by visit teachers, but I think you are handling it the best way for your situation.

I think you should go with your companion. If he set up the appointments, then it's only fair that you give the lesson. Might I suggest the accuracy of the book of abraham translation as the subject of your lesson. Or perhaps your families need to learn about js's polyandry. Let the spirit guide you.

You could say something to your wife like "He's not my companion any more and I'm glad they changed that because he is really pushy and inappropriate. Thank you so much for making that clear to him. You are the best wife ever. But honestly, can you imagine acting like that? You'd never try to bully your VT companion through her husband."

Hang in there Matrix. If my wife was still in I would fake it along for her too. I am happy enough with my wife and two little kids that I would put up with a little so-called "disfunction" in the family. Fortunately we are all out now.

Before I was totally out I wanted to maintain some relationships but I wasn't willing to hometeach, pay tithing, or do my calling in Young Men's. I had a very cool Bishop and Elder's Quorum President so I did two things:

First I called the EQ Pres and said precisely, "I'm calling to let you know that I won't do any home teaching. It's for personal reasons that I'm not willing to talk to you about right now. I appreciate your friendship and I'm grateful for your understanding." It ended up not being as awkward as I thought it would be and I was never approached again about hometeaching.

I had a similar conversation with the Bishop but I told him I don't believe. He is a very unique Bishop and was understanding. Since then I've totally left the church and told him everything. He's no longer Bishop but we are personal friends outside of church.

Matrix I really like Sallys comments and always Imaworkinonits as well.

One way to possibly approach things is to reorder the priorities of the family.

Your wife is clearly trying to play both sides, but the loser is you. As demonstrated by your frustration you cannot continue to compromise your integrity and inner values and also be dicked around by the cult, while also carrying all the baggage in terms of concessions.

I would suggest you discuss this with DW. Point out that this is just pure suffering for you and you are doing it because you put your marriage and family above your own personal comfort. You are willing to continue to support her in this way, but you need some parity and reciprocal support. You want her and the kids to do something that you would like to do one Sunday per month rather than go to church.

This is not about devaluing church, but about demonstrating her value of you and your values and priorities. This is not unreasonable, and the time can be spent having fun or at another church or whatever. You must be able to inhabit your own values within your family and marriage and have the freedom to have these valued as much as DW wants you to value hers and support them.

If she is willing to see this, it is a celebration and "worship" of the marriage and family by putting this ahead of church or other things. How can this not be a good thing.

The Matrix Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Brother Dick-hi brother Matrix I am your home
> teaching companion.
> Matrix-ok good luck with that.

Excellent!

> So that is where we are at. How would you
> proceed. Keep in mind that keeping the piece with
> Mrs M is very important to me. She knows where I
> am at spiritually but I try to keep it between us
> and respect her beliefs.

From what I see here you are doing just fine.

Email back from the EQ
"It has been taken care of"

We Shall see....