These are not my words, but I have been thinking about them for the past three days since they were spoken. What struck me most was the insight that "if-only" is a kind of denial that keeps us stuck. I frequently struggle with that. And I've been thinking about the comment on anger--that anger is not "unspiritual." The unspirituality of anger something the Mormon church drummed into us over and over.

-------------------------------------------------------

Gr i e f
. . . .

In 1969 the Swiss American psychiatrist Elisabeth Kübler-Ross published her now-famous book On Death and Dying in which she laid out five different ways people respond to any kind of loss or dramatic shift. These fall on a continuum with denial at one end to acceptance on the other.

Denial

Denial grows out of emotional shock to bad news about our health, finances, relationships or anything else important: “I can’t believe it.” “It can’t really be true.” Even if intellectually we trust the information, emotionally we might feel, “No way, this can’t really be so.” This is a normal phase of grief that many people experience.

Acceptance
At the other end of the spectrum is acceptance. Acceptance doesn’t mean we’re necessarily happy or prefer what has happened. It’s just that we are at peace with it. We aren’t denying or fighting reality.

Anger

The other three phases of grief are a mixture of denial and acceptance. If there is a lot of denial and just a little acceptance, we feel angry: “Why me?” “It’s not fair?” “How can this happen?” “Who’s to blame?” We want to battle whoever brought the situation upon us: a friend, God, fate, ourselves. Anger is normal and natural and needs to be able to run its course.

Sadness

On the other hand, when there’s a lot of acceptance and just a little denial, we feel sad. Kübler -Ross calls this “depression.” It’s a loss of spirits, vitality, and a sinking sensation. The gloomy feelings are organic and will pass in time if they are embraced.

If Only

If there is a balance of denial and acceptance we fall into a stage of grief Kübler-Rose called it “bargaining.” I call it “The if Onlys” because that’s what we say to ourselves: “If only I had kept quiet, this would not have happened.” “If only we’d gone to the doctor earlier.” “If only he had not done that, we’d be okay.” “If only …” “If only …” It’s easy to get stuck in this stage because, it might actually be true: if only this had not happened that result might not have come about. We’ll never know for sure. But it’s possible to speculate endlessly. As long as we remain focused on the thoughts, the driving emotions do not have an opportunity to shift. So it’s important to look at the situation as it is right now regardless of how we got here. And it’s important to feel the emotions rather than get lost in speculation. One way we get stuck on “if only” is getting stuck on mistakes. There have been mistakes made in this transition process. I’ve made some. Others have made some. We’re only human. There will be different stories about what exactly happened when. This is inevitable. . . .

Ac c e p t a n c e

One final thought before opening it up for questions and comments. As we listen to each other and ourselves, let’s listen to the content of what we say and also to the emotions behind it: does it sound like denial, anger, if-only, sadness, acceptance or some mixture? We want the peace and stability of acceptance. The question is how to get there. It’s simple: less denial and more acceptance. If we’re feeling angry, we might tell ourselves, “Anger is so unspiritual. I shouldn’t be upset. I should be serene and accepting.” This is a form of denial. It moves us in the direction of more denial.

On the other hand, saying, “Oh wow! I’m pretty upset. Far out,” moves us toward acceptance. There is a famous Zen story I’ve shared with you about a great teacher whose student died. He cried. His students said, “Why do you cry? With all you know about life, why these tears?” The old monk said, “Because I’m sad, you fool.”

Emotions aren’t rational: they follow a different logic. Whatever is going on, let’s embrace it with less denial and more acceptance.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2013 11:44PM by robertb.

It is really hard when a couple does it differently. My spouse bounces between "anger" and "if only". I think I went denial, sadness, to semi-acceptance. Sometimes it is OK, and I can still accept it. But sometimes I get sucked into the anger and the if only and it takes a lot of work to get back to sadness or acceptance. I'm generally a pretty happy person and sadness and anger SUCK! I'm so tired of dealing with this shit and just want it to end. Right when I feel like I'm moving forward, I get sucked back in. I'm sooo tired of trying to just move on. And yes, I do think of anger as "bad". I never understood why Jesus could get all pissed and turn over the money changer tables and it was all righteous. A decent savior would at least use positive methods.

Sometimes leaving with someone is great because you are not alone and you don't have that wedge in between you. I don't know how some of you do it. But sometimes I feel like when you process things differently, it is just hard in a different way. I'm so done with regret. All I have is now. It should be better now than it was.

Sorry for the rant. Thank you Robert. It helped me vocalize a lot of anxiety I've been struggling with. Sometimes just letting it out helps.

It's very hard when a spouse processes that way. It is a trap. I think there is a lot of guilt underneath that way of processing--staying stuck. The Mormon Church generates a lot of guilt and self-loathing. You might try asking her--maybe you already do--what she needs right here and now. Not from the past but here and now.

I'm the her, spouse is the him.... Hard to tell from the screen name!

I've asked about the moving forward idea, what to do with now but he still is processing the "If I had not gone on a mission... and missing out on freedom of youth. "If I had not got married so soon..." and all the anger that comes out of not having had "more experience". "If I had not had so many kids..." and the anger of all that responsibility. And on and on. It all boils down to everything that sucks for him because of the way he was raised. And some of it is true. But some of it just hurts because I am the wife he got stuck with (not what he says, but how it makes me feel) and our kids are who suffers because there is all the anger now.

He is suffering. He pulls it together to meet his responsibilities plus anything else he can give. Sometimes he can give more, sometimes less. I've asked him to look to the now, but the past seems to pull him back. He shies from social engagement and has asked me to "intervene" when I can. Any social engagement triggers anger. He assumes his TBM family thinks he is crap because he is ex. Yes, they are TBM but they still love him and try their best in their TBM way.

And there is the problem. I usually see the glass half-full and he sees it as half-empty. And there is a lot of self-loathing. Funny thing was, I never saw it when he was TBM.

I apologize for the gender confusion.

Mormonism does two things: It creates self-loathing and then it compensates for self-loathing with inflation--the Priesthood, the true church, blah, blah. When you leave the church, you lose the deflation but you get to keep the self-loathing, which is why you didn't see it when your husband was a TBM.

From what you describe, it sounds like he is depressed and it is getting worse. Can you get him into counseling? What you are describing is very hard to live with--for everyone. He needs to talk through the feelings self-loathing and regret and to work with the thoughts that accompany them.

And you weren't ranting before--I forgot to say that :-)

"Mormonism does two things: It creates self-loathing and then it compensates for self-loathing with inflation--the Priesthood, the true church, blah, blah."

Very true.

I'm going through a rough patch right now (some of it related to the grieving process), and I'm also trying to deal with some lingering beliefs about Mormonism. I've been skimming the tri-set and with all of its talk about Mormonism being this one true perfect thing that's going to conquer the world, and Mormons being these righteous soldiers in this conquering army started to make me feel, well, powerful and superior. But then I started to remember why Mormons are judgemental towards people like me and I went back to feeling like crap.

Mormonism beats you up--not to be a better person, but because of how it's designed. It really isn't a kind religion when you contrast its details with other religions and life in general. Mormonism is actually kind of mean. I think this is why it makes Mormons themselves mean people. It makes them conditionally happy, conditionally nice, conditionally aware, conditionally human, and it makes them "accept" people different than them by rejecting them conditionally.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2013 10:47AM by liminal state.

It takes time. You are right about Mormonism being mean. I came across a phrase recently in a study that referred to religions like Mormonism as "selfish religions." It fits. Be kind to yourself and try avoid beating yourself into change. :-)

That is a great point about the loathing cycle. I never thought about it that way. Just thought I was blind.

A while back (1-2 years?) he went to his primary care physician and started drugs and tried counseling. Consellor was not the greatest fit, he didn't feel like it was doing anything, felt like it was a new set of brainwashing to replace the mormon set. I've tried to get him to try again with someone new, but he doesn't feel ready. I've tried to make the point that his current "self talk" is his own set of brainwashing. He gets real disturbed by ideas where the goal is to look at the positive - because it does not change that the negative is there. My read is that both the good and the bad are there, I'd just rather be happy and content than pissed all the time. The medication helps take the edge off the anger. Pre-meds it was about over, I could not handle the anger and would not let me and the kids be subject to it.

The saddest thing for me is that when I feel like things are getting better, it turns out that he is depressed. I mis-read his depression as that he is coming to acceptance. And then the anger - what if cycle starts again. I still love him.

Thanks for listening/reading. It feels good just to let it out. I'd love to learn new mechanisms for coping with the problem but not being co-dependent. At first I kind of let it all steam-roller me. And then I grew a pair/got a spine and defined what was OK when he was angry and what was unacceptable. Usually I can keep my balance because I've realized that the only thing I can control is myself. But sometimes it can get stressful and it all tidal waves over me.

"I believe that events such as birth or death are transitions. Individuals, and we, who are around them, must pass through them alone, each in our own way. For the individual, a nexus or gateway into or out of this existence is opened, and elemental life forces are shaken loose in the process. Others sharing the experience must undergo a different spiritual transformation; either to cling to our loved ones’ memory so much that we also “die” in this existence, or to climb through the pain of loss and return to the joy of life, having become deepened, enriched.

The departure of beloved friends has impacted my life, leaving gaps and holes that nothing can refill. Participating in Life After Death: Embracing the [word starting with "Q"] Widow has given me an opportunity to create works that seek to interpret, resolve, and heal the grief of loss. I hold a mirror up to the society I live in, challenge you, the viewer, to look at yourself; and ask you to think, change, act, and improve. I want to draw you in, touch your spirit and stir your deepest emotions."

--FlattopSF

So strange, Beth. I posted this thread without knowing about Kerry.

I don't know that I've ever really grieved. This feels different.

*hug*

I called Kerry just to hear his voice again. I left him a message. Crazy, but I do not know what to do.

*hugs* I did that after my dad died. I wish I had recorded his voice. It's OK to do that. Feel what you feel and be safe. *hugs*



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2013 11:04AM by robertb.

This is very personal for me right now. I'm adjusting to big changes in my life as my husband just passed a few weeks ago.

Grief is 100% individual. There is often too much emphasis on whether someone is showing proper grief, especially with police and detectives, analyzing behavior.

No such thing. We all grieve differently.

I don't know about the book and those stages.
I didn't approach it quite that way. I'm not sure about our children, as we have not gone into much detail.

But I had a lot of preparation (years of probability, and months or assurance), so that makes a difference. At least, it did in my case.

I did have a shock-this is unreal, surreal, what is really happening right now, when I found him not breathing but warm as toast. Then sets in the reality and the preparations for services, and the family responses.

I have been most impacted by how my children are dealing with the loss of their father as he was a great Dad in so many ways. Totally unconditional love, accepting, and willing to do anything to help them.

I'm a very strong, independent woman, naturally happy and upbeat able to adjust quickly to big changes.

Because I took care of him in the dying process with the help of Hospice,I witnessed his dying process very up front and personal. Fortunately, at some point the "filter" seems to be gone and he said some of the funniest things. Remembering them bring a lot of peace to me. The first and strongest reaction to his passing was one of relief, thankfully he was done, finished with that body that could not produce any quality of life anymore. The Leon I knew for so many decades was barely there.

I got through those days with a sense of humor and the ability to put it all in context. I also had a lot of support from family (some visiting and helping a little-lots of phone calls) and friends and Hospice nurses (they are a special kind of nurse!)

The more I remember the fun and funny, good times, the more I adjust and the less I tear up. I also write about it which is helpful.

I'm also surprised by something that hits me out of the blue, same with some of our adult "kids." Memories that remind us of our great loss.

This is how I do it. And it works for me.

I'm glad you have such great memories, SusieQ#1. Yes, grief is individual to all of us.