There are SO many specific predictions in the BOM. I mean
prophecies that leave no wiggle room for "interpretation." And
all of them are things that Joseph Smith would have already
known. Such as

The prophet who would bring it forth was named "Joseph" and his
father would also be named "Joseph."

The mother of Jesus would be named "Mary" (what I like about
this one is that it is completely of no use to the Nephites or
anyone else in the "new world" whatsoever).

The messiah would be named "Jesus Christ." Even the Old
Testament doesn't get it that precise (and this is not even
taking into account that "messiah" is the Hebrew word and
"Christ" is the Greek word for the same thing.

The little "history lesson" that the angel gives to Nephi about
Columbus and the revolutionary war etc. ends just before Joseph
Smith's time and then the "prophecy" gets all conditional--if
they're good, then good things and if they're bad then bad
things, etc.

There's even the Anthon affair mentioned in clear detail
including the "I cannot read a sealed book."


All this stuff clearly, and in stark detail "predicted" by the
BOM and all stuff that JS would have known. However no mention
of the Civil war, the Trail of tears, the reservation system,
even the founding of the LDS Church (which hadn't happened
yet). Nothing about WWI or WWII. No details about anything
AFTER 1830.

When you throw in the fact that Lehi's dream is detail for
detail identical to Joseph Smith's father's dream it's not hard
to see what's going on here.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2013 03:39AM by baura.

I read Lucy Mack Smith's book when I was still a TBM and I thought to myself, "Wait a sec, Joseph Smith Senior's dream is identical to Lehi's dream!" That's when I really started to question things.

Yes!!!! For me, this is also one of the simplest and most compelling tests that show the BoM (and the other "scriptures") are not true. I remember as my mind was being set as a child and I was being trained in religion (I was a very active mormon until my early 30s), how often it was emphasized to me that one of the great proofs of God was his ability to tell the future in detail, which we humans are not good at. The future is indeed hard to predict, and as a child, I took the evidence of the scriptures as evidence that God had this power and therefore must exist etc. This was part of the basis of my testimony and the construction of my mind within the scaffolding of a religious worldview. However, as an adult, it became painfully clearer and clearer (once I let myself honestly face it) exactly the point you describe here -- namely throughout the scriptures all of the intricate detail ALWAYS goes away as soon as you can verify that the prediction/prophesy is being made in advance. So, just as one would expect from any human work, hindsight is highly detailed, foresight not so much.

"The messiah would be named 'Jesus Christ.' Even the Old
Testament doesn't get it that precise (and this is not even
taking into account that 'messiah' is the Hebrew word and
'Christ' is the Greek word for the same thing."

This is exactly why most non-LDS religion scholars don't take LDS theology and BOM very seriously.

The first Christians were called "Followers of the Way" or "Followers of Jesus," and they called themselves as such. Why? Because Jesus was NOT "Christ" initially...not yet. The idea that "Jesus is Messiah” began to develop much later.

Even after the idea became known to first followers of Jesus, it was not widely recognized...until after some political and organizational battles within the faith community. Then the idea of "Jesus is Messiah" won out and slowly gained acceptance. That's why the first Chrisitans' chant and matra was: Jesus is Messiah.

But as the Jesus movement expanded and reached to those who were considered "gentile," who did not understand the meaning of "Messiah" in the Jewish context, the word "Lord" in Greek was adopted. So, the chant or mantra became: Jesus is Lord. And then it was changed to "Christ."

So, the name Jesus Christ was NOT even known to the first followers of Jesus, such as Peter, Paul, etc.. For BOM to use that name as if it were divinely assigned, where in fact it is a human invention to capture Jesus' role and importance in the development of that belief system, it is just evident that whoever wrote BOM is oblivious to historical facts and development of the Christian faith.

And if BOM were divinely inspired, it would mean that the mormon god is oblivious to historical facts and development of the Christian faith.

jl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, the name Jesus Christ was NOT even known to
> the first followers of Jesus, such as Peter, Paul,
> etc..

So, the BoM affirms the validity of the apostasy. That's what I'm hearing.

The reference to the Jaredites connection with the Tower of Babel is also a pretty good smoking gun. Demonstrate that the ToB is complete BS....which it obviously is - and then the BoM is left massively exposed.

I completely agree - this one is about as clear as it can get. The Jaredites story takes the Tower of Babel seriously, and purports to have first hands accounts of it recorded on metal plates (and with an in body appearance of the lord to back it up to boot). So, it leaves no room in its narrative for allegory, being a story misunderstood through the mists of time and translation etc. It puts forth strongly that this is a literal story and, as you say, it is obviously false and at odds with tons of scientific data. We know how languages evolve, can trace their lineages, can line the up with migration patterns etc. This is indeed one of the strongest, clearest, simplest smoking guns there is.

The BoM has unofficially been down-graded; it's little more than a prop anymore.

Few people will talk in more than vague terms about it; those who do will talk in circles.

My TBM brother seems to have abandoned the BOM for the bible these days.

I am planning on a bible rebuttal.

Better he study the HISTORY of the bible; not the bible itself...

Many of us know this already, but this might help: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151491908215155&set=pb.8798180154.-2207520000.1362925137&type=3&theater

I'm told that the reason Mormons are full of shit is that the Jeredites brought their flocks and their herds with them in the little submarines and had no place to put their waste during the 344 day voyage.