I've posted in the past about the ex inlaw TBM, and some of the confusing things she let's slip about Mormonism. I have another one I'm hoping to get help with.

She has a three year old son and twin 18 month old girls. She mentioned in her blog that 11 o'clock meetings are hard on the kids. I'm taking the inference that there is no choice in this allotted time.

Now, I grew up Lutheran and Catholic, and we picked the services we wanted to go to. Some had more traditional music, some shorter with more contemporary, etc. This leads me into the following inquiries

1) I see about ward boundaries, but you seriously HAVE to go to that particular chapel/ward? You can't go to the one 5 miles up the road because, say, your inlaws go there, or your friends?

2) They assign you a time? Like I said, my TBM is lightly complaining the time is hard on her kids, can't she just go to another time? They really have control of your Sundays THAT much? Call it cog dis lite, but I'm having difficulty wrapping my head around this

Yes, you are correct on both counts. Mormons have assigned ward houses and assigned meeting times. It is not unusual to have three wards share a building. So one might meet in the early morning, one in the middle of the day, and one in the afternoon (they will rotate meeting times after a few years.) Mormon Sunday meetings are three hours long.

Church members also have assigned church jobs, or "callings." For instance a member might be the Elders Quorum President, a nursery worker, an organist, etc. These callings go along with whatever ward house and meeting time you are assigned. It's not like other churches where most members just go and attend the service. If members are absent on any particular Sunday, they have to find someone else to cover their callings.

Ward boundaries can be just as gerrymandered as a congressional district. So a member might have a ward house two blocks down the street, but be assigned to one five miles away.

It's all rather mind-boggling for a nevermo, isn't it?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2013 05:35AM by summer.

Yes, I recall heavy murmuring 2 wards ago when the membership had to drive 5 miles away to another building when there was a meeting house literally within walking distance of most of the members of that particular ward. Makes no sense.

goldenrule Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, I recall heavy murmuring 2 wards ago when the
> membership had to drive 5 miles away to another
> building when there was a meeting house literally
> within walking distance of most of the members of
> that particular ward. Makes no sense.

I had a neighbor in that situation. It was stupid that they had to go so far when a church was right there. Of course, I always drove further because I liked the other church better, so it's not entirely unusual for people to go further away, but when you're assigned a time and place, how silly to make people go so far when the nearest ward is nearly next door.

Yes, every member in the Mormon church is assigned to a congregation that meets at a particular time at a particular chapel. You are expected to attend per your assignment and not complain, although rare exceptions are granted where there are exceptional, extenuating circumstances

Males aged 12 and over are expected to wear white shirt and tie to the Sunday meetings and girls and women are expected to wear modest dresses.

Most adult members who are active in the Mormon church are assigned "callings" (unpaid positions) which vary from distributing hymn books to presiding over the entire congregation (Bishop). Asking to be given a particular calling is not acceptable--they assign you where they need you and rejecting an assignment is frowned upon.

And it goes on and on ....

One additional detail. There are typically 3 wards to a building - at least in UT and other areas with lots of Mormons.

One ward will go at 9, one at 11 & one at 1. Every year they rotate what time you go - so it changes once a year - every ward gets a turn at a different time.

It 9 o'clock ward gets to set up chairs - the 1 o'clock takes them down.

You can visit any ward at any time. However your membership records - required to have a calling, to get a temple recommend, etc. can only be for the ward you live in. It officially required 1st presidency approval to do otherwise - although bishops skirt the rule fairly often depending on the circumstances.

"One ward will go at 9, one at 11 & one at 1. Every year they rotate what time you go - so it changes once a year - every ward gets a turn at a different time."

Unless you're a singles' ward. My TBM sister complains that her ward gets the 9am slot every year, and the two family wards in her building rotate between the other two times.

I was told if we needed church assistance (which we did at the time) that we had to attend within our boundaries.

When I was a kid, our ward building was about a 7-minute drive from our house. Then, when my family's ward boundaries changed, we had to go to a church building that was about 20 minutes away, in another town. We weren't even in our old stake anymore. Instead of driving half an hour to get to the nearest stake building, we had to drive an hour and a half.

It took some getting used to, needless to say.

When I was in a singles ward, I remember someone announcing that they were making a new ward elsewhere. Several of our congregation were asked to stand, and we were informed that these people would be part of the new ward, effective immediately. I never saw any of those people again after that, presumably because they went to their assigned ward.

No one is going to physically stop you if you try to go to a ward of your own choosing, but chances are you are going to get pestered or inconvenienced a lot if you don't conform. My nevermo friends were absolutely baffled by it.

"No one is going to physically stop you if you try to go to a ward of your own choosing, but chances are you are going to get pestered or inconvenienced a lot if you don't conform. My nevermo friends were absolutely baffled by it."

I thought your original bishop and the bishop of the ward you're "visiting" will eventually tell you to go to your assigned ward (exceptions are vacations and business trips).

I also thought the ultimate way to keep people in their assigned wards was to take away their TR if they continued to go to the ward of their own personal choice.


Personally I never understood why the members all over the world just didn't TELL their bishops which church they want to attend and tell them to stuff it if the bishops gave the members any grief...

Not only are you geographically restricted to a certain ward, but the ward boundaries can be changed at any time. This means that if you have lifelong friends in your ward, you must abandon them and accept newly assigned friends at your next ward.

And people wonder why I say that Mormonism violates essential human rights.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2013 12:38AM by donbagley.

Because he insisted on attending a ward other than his assigned ward. He wanted to take his family to help feed the homeless on Sunday mornings and attend church at a later time. He lost his bishop's "endorsement" that he was an active member of the church, and thus lost his job.

(Subsequently, he left the Mormon church, joined the Unitarians, trained to become a minister, and last I heard, he moved elsewhere to do that).

Them Mormons are SERIOUS about their assigned wards!

Thank you, ima, for reinforcing the point. It may be one of the worst Mormon doctrines as applied locally.

He was giving the sermon the first time I ever attended a Unitarian Church. I was kind of scared to be there, having just left Mormonism. His sermon was intellectually stimulating, and spiritually moving. I was utterly shocked when I felt "the spirit" wash over me more strongly than I had felt it for a long time.

It was kind of important to my journey out of Mormonism, to realize that the LDS didn't OWN the spirit, and in fact, rather failed by comparison.

I had an elder quorum president say during sacrament meeting that if you weren't attending your assigned ward, you weren't "attending your meetings" as required in temple recommend interviews. Even if you were, say attending church with your fiancé, you were "unworthy" to go to the temple, because you weren't going to your assigned meeting!

The funny part was, my soon-to-be-sister-in-law was there visiting with her fiancé! She went up and sarcastically thanked him for the great talk.

Thanks for the responses, guys. And yes, it IS mind boggling. You lose a TR over not going to an assigned time? The professor lost his job?!

My TBM has three kids under three, and an earlier time would be better. It's enough she talks about how she is altering their nap times during the rest of the week to accomodate for Sundays. It just struck me as a giant WTF moment

When I lived in Ohio, I lived 3 miles from a mormon church. I lived in the boundaries of one that was 35 miles away. I didn't mind going to that one though, because nobody in my ward or stake lived in my town. They were also long distance, so nobody ever called me. It was a small town, so that was nice.

We lived about 30 minutes away from a temple that was in another state. We were assigned to one within our state that was about a 2 1/2 hour drive. That I minded. We usually went to the one that was closest. They liked to remind us that wasn't our temple. Whatever, we quit going altogether. That solved the problem.

After being open a few years both temples were by appointment only. If you weren't in the boundaries they wouldn't let you come there. I don't know if they still do that, but that seemed insane to me. If you have people that are willing to go, and meet the requirements (tithe payers), you should let them go anytime, anywhere.

I moved far far away. I left the church. None of that matters anymore. If I want or need a spiritual experience I go to the beach or the forrest. That works for me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2013 01:39AM by Mia.

I had sort of a different ward distance problem. I had been in a fantastic ward with people mostly my own age and lots of families who included me in their lives even tho I was single. It was one of the greatest wards I'd ever been assigned to. They were all basically the same educational level and in the same places in their lives career and family wise. Then I had to move out of the house where I was living and moved to a different community very, very close. I asked the bishop if I could continue to be a member of his ward and he refused. He said I could visit as often as I wanted but to stay worthy I would have to join a ward within the boundaries of my new apartment. I can tell you that my new assigned ward was totally weird. Everyone seemed poor, overworked, and ignored me completely when I went to church. When the R.S. president came to visit me she was so exhausted I felt like I should be visiting her instead. I finally just stopped going to church and nobody even noticed. That was when my inactivity started. I still wouldn't say I was offended. I was just ignored and depressed by those people. If they had love bombed me I might have thought someone cared but I knew no one did.

Obedience. It's overrated. I no longer have all those church bosses!

Yeah, now that you mention it, it's the dumbest thing ever! Why did I ever fall for that?

Yeah, seriously. This is weird as f*** to me, a non-member, as well.

And to hear Mormons explain it is even weirder. "How will we have enough people to serve?" "How will we know one time won't be overflowing and another one empty?"

Uh, most major denominations do just fine, thank you very much, without assigning what time people can go to church.

I'd be a terrible Mormon because I simply wouldn't comply with ridiculous crap like this. It's all about control, and keeping tabs on you. If you have your choice of 3 services, "your" bishop could inquire about your absence and you could just say you went to another one. But if you are assigned, well, then they can tell if you went or not more easily. And you can get your "we missed you this week" phone calls....

There are many, many things that are just baffling about LDS. Like... you can't hold Bible/Scripture studies in your own home. You can't assemble 4 or 5 friends, pick a topic, and regularly meet to learn together. Why? Control. (And they don't want you digging too much/asking too many questions/discovering the truth...) But that's ridiculous to me.

Have you heard about the temple yet? If this surprises you, that will surely blow your mind!

Some years ago, my sister told me they had created a new ward for YSA in the area of Montreal and all the YSAs of the different wards and branch there and around had to go to that ward. (I was not part of that stake and was not of YSA's age)
I asked her if the person had the choice of staying in their "home ward" and going to the YSA one or they absolutely had to go to the YSA one.
She told me they it was mandatory to to go the YSA one and you had better have a very very good excuse to stay in your home ward and the Bishop was the one who decided if your reason was good enough.
I was appalled. I told her that I would have decided for myself and too bad for the bishop's opinion.
I think it was one of the many things that continued to add up until I finally left tscc.

I thought that was really weird too. It's crazy because you could have a person live right next door to you, yet they are assigned to a completely different ward. You don't get to pick. I've always gone to church the same as you. The church closest didn't have a time that I liked for the Mass I wanted (contemporary), so we ended up driving further. Another church that's pretty close was too conservative and old, so again, go to the other one that's more my comfort with more people our age.

Of course you're allowed to go to other wards and times for visiting and stuff, although lots of times the family would all go to their own wards at their own times, making some family planning difficult. I don't understand why they couldn't go to a different time on just those occasions. Makes no sense.

They also never skipped the Sunday school, so if we went to the meeting, we would then have to kill two hours before everyone would show up for the meal. In this case they would all go to the other person's ward. I don't get why they couldn't skip it this once. I certainly didn't want to attend the classes. I stopped going to the meetings, just meet up when they're done. Yawners, there's plenty to do at home.

I agree with you. As a nonmo, the mormon church TELLING you who, what, where, why, and how you will spend YOUR sunday to be "spirtually enriched" by them makes no sense either...

Yes, seriously. But don't start thinking it's a cult or anything. No way.

My brother was inactive for several years because the bishop of his home ward was a guy that he had a really toxic work relationship with. He met with the stake president about it and explained the situation, and asked for permission to attend another ward. The answer was pretty much, "Nope, you're just going to have to suck it up." So my brother and his wife and their young children spent a few years not going to church, instead. I'm not sure why the stake president thought that was a better option. Anyway, eventually the jerkface bishop got released, and my brother's family started attending meetings again in their assigned ward.

I'm sorry, but this is one occasion where I think you all are wrong.

She has a 3-year-old and 18-month-old twins?! She is so exhausted and so sleep deprived that she does not know what she is saying. I don't care what her religion is.

If you don't believe me, send her to a hotel for a week and do what she does. I dare you.

Jeez.

Who is saying anything about the mom? Not us. We're mainly talking about how ridiculous it is that LDS, inc assigns you a time (whether it works for you or not). That's a fact whether or not this mom is overtired or not.

She would have an easier time with those kids if she didn't have to take them to church when they should be napping.

You're right, I misunderstood the post. My apologies.