When I read about this and discovered that they also wanted to castrate Joseph that was a red flag that something was seriously wrong. So, most of you probably know that Joseph was banging Fanny Alger and Fanny's brother was just a little bit more than upset about it - he hired a doctor to castrate Joseph Smith. The doctor chickened out at the last moment.

I wonder how much church history would have changed had they succeeded in castrating ol' Joe. I wonder how that might have affected the "revelation" on polygamy and polyandry. Thoughts?

See Mark L. Staker's "Hearken, O Ye People," pages 331-374,
also my web-pages:

http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/features/hiram.htm
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/features/hiram1.htm
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/features/hiram2.htm
http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/1876Hins.htm#ryder

I doubt very much that anybody was seriously attempting to
castrate Joseph. I also doubt that he had much interaction
with the Johnson girl, or that folks in Hiram cared much
about the Alger girl.

UD

Uncle Dale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I doubt very much that anybody was seriously
> attempting to
> castrate Joseph. I also doubt that he had much
> interaction
> with the Johnson girl, or that folks in Hiram
> cared much
> about the Alger girl.
>
> UD


In the words of Mormon author Todd Compton:

According to Luke Johnson, Smth was stretched on a board, then 'they tore off the night clothes that he had on, for the purpose of emasculating him, and had Dr. Dennison there to perform the operation. But when the Doctor saw the prophet stripped and stretched on the plank, his heart failed him, and he refused to operate.

The motivation for this mobbing has been debated. Clark Braden, a late, antagonastic, secondhand witness, alleged in a polemic public debate that Marinda's brother Eli led a mob against Smith because the prophet had been too intimate with Marinda. This tradition suggests that Smith may have married Marinda at this early time, and some circumstantial factors support such a possibility. The castration attempt might be taken as evidence that the mob felt that Joseph had committed a sexual impropriety; since the attempt is reported by Luke Johnson, there is no reason to doubt it. Also, they had planned the operation in advance, as they brought along a doctor to perform it.

The first revelations on polygamy had been received in 1831, by historian Daniel Bachman's dating. Also, Joseph Smith did tend to marry women who had stayed at his house or in whose house he had stayed. [Joseph Smith was living in the home of Marinda at the time.]

Many other factors, however, argue against this theory. First, Marinda had no brother named Eli, which suggests that Braden's accusation, late as it is, is garbled and unreliable. In addition, two antagonistic accounts by Hayden and S. F. Whitney give an entirely different reason for the mobbing, with an entirely different leader, Simonds Ryder, an ex-Mormon, though the Johnson brothers are still participants. In these accounts the reason for the violence is economic: the Johnson boys were in the mob because of 'the horrid fact that a plot was laid to take their property from them and place it in the control of Smith.' The castration, in this scenario, may have only been a threat, meant to intimidate Smith and cause him to leave Hiram, Ohio.

While it is not impossible that Marinda became Smith's first plural wife in 1831, the evidence for such a marriage, resting chiefly on the late, unreliable Braden, is not compelling. Unless more credible evidence is found, it is best to proceed under the assumption that Joseph and Marinda did not marry or have a relationship in 1831.

- "In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith," 231-232.

It should be noted that Smith eventually did marry Marinda Nancy Johnson, AFTER she had married Orson Hyde and AFTER he had sent poor Orson a mission.

I really suggest that you browse through Staker's book.
I've provided some excerpts, here.

http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/features/hiram2.htm#staker

I started a lengthy paper on this topic a couple of years
ago, but health issues have prevented me from doing much
lately. Here is the introductory graphic:

http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/features/Temple_Hill9.jpg

UD

Thanks UD. That looks like interesting reading material. I bookmarked it.

suckafoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks UD. That looks like interesting reading
> material. I bookmarked it.


One of the questions I asked myself, was HOW the Hiram
Mormon apostates and former Mormons were able to get a
large number of local residents to go along with them,
in ejecting Smith and Rigdon from their town.

I concluded that the planned Mormon Temple had something
to do with the public distaste for Moronism. The Hiram
folks could tolerate having Mormons in their midst (such
as the Johnson family, on whose farm Smith and Rigdon
were living)... But they could NOT put up with the idea
of having their town become the headquarters for a great
Mormon theocratic empire.

Compelling local Portage County converts to pull up stakes
and move to Jackson County made some limited sense, but
the same Hiram residents could see no reason for donating
their farms to Joe Smith, and migrating to Missouri, to
build the great temple there, if Smith was going to take
that same donated farmland and turn it into his personal
Zion. Why not just stay in Hiram, instead?

And many did just that. And many decided that Smith & Rigdon
were con men, after their "universalist" vision of the
three degrees of glory (in the Johnson house), and many
were able to convince their neighbors, one dark night,
that it was time to eject the Mormon big shots.

Rigid on never came back. Smith returned for a short while,
and was unmollested by the Hiramites, after his plans for
building a Mormon Zion there were abandoned.

UD

Is there maybe one of those retroactive proxy ordinances available, to castrate JS--or would that put too much crimp in his glorious afterlife?

I thought it was one Miranda Johnson old Joe was grooming.. A teenage sister of the brothers whose home he was staying in, and these Johnson brothers were the main tar and featherers. A doctor was brought to neuter old Joe, but he apparently thought of the Hippocratic Oath and didn't do it.

I came across this more likely story only within the last couple of years. In Sunday School they taught us that Joe was tarred and feathered by people who were persecuting him for restoring the One True Gospel, and that they were minions of Stan.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2013 03:42PM by rationalguy.

As best I can determine, the Johnson girl was away from
Hiram during the time that Joseph and Sidney were residing
there. She may have returned home from the boarding school
in Chardon now and then for brief visits, but no local
or family sources, that I know of, place her in the Johnson
home at Hiram, as a continual resident, at the time Smith
was there.

There has been a great deal published in the newspapers since
that event -- most of which historians never read and never
cite. Staker has done the best job, so far, in digging out
those old reports, analyzing their contents and laying out
the situation in northern Portage County, at the time of
the Simith-Rigdon tarring and feathering.

Perhaps one day somebody will provide a better reconstruction
of the history -- but, in the meanwhile, the motivations and
the actual details of that event have been published as well
as we can expect at this late date.

UD

I would think it obvious that castration would make you sexually impotent. I wonder though, would a horny person become less horny after castration?

They do become non-horny. That's where the testosterone comes from. A eunuch no longer gets an erection or has desire for sex.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2013 04:13PM by rationalguy.

Part of that statement is true.
But eunuchs can still get an erection and have sex. It would only have slowed the horndog down, not stopped him.

The testicles are not the only things that produce testosterone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2013 09:07PM by WinksWinks.

Can you believe that I was taught that Joe got tarred and feathered because he stood up for Jesus and righteousness?

The "mob" was apparently composed of on call servants of the Devil. These men can be mustered at any hour, I suppose, to gather and harm persons of great faith. Like the demons who tormented Job, the "mob" tortured sweet, innocent Joseph.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2013 08:56PM by donbagley.

The other part of the story I heard included the idea that JS was trying to get old man Johnson to part with his property and give it to the church. Apparently the real reason is currently lost in the mists of time, but we can be sure that he riled someone. It wasn't just because they didn't like his religious ideas or were working for Stan.