Original Thread Here: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,825204

First off; my son has demonstrated an increased interest in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster for several weeks now. Neither his mother, nor I have encouraged or discouraged him in any way in this regard. We have had open and candid discussions about the subject and are letting him form his own opinions on the matter. We have stated that his affinity for FSM'ism is just as legitimate as a belief in magic seer stones, disapearing golden plates, a reanimated cosmic Jewish Zombie, etc.

Second; niether my son's mother, nor I suggested or encouraged our son to wear a pasta strainer to school. That whole idea was the genisis of my son's English teacher. My son was having a casual conversation with his teacher after class about his affinity for Pastafarianism and that he identifies as Pastafarian. The English teacher lit up like a light bulb and said that my son should wear a pasta strainer to school if he was a true Pastafarian - so I suppose if you're going to make the silly accusation of staging a 'stunt', you'd have to credit his English teacher for that and, for those 'educators' that took issue with my son's choice of mythological attire, the Teacher did, in fact, make use of my son's choice to wear the hat precisely as a teaching tool for the entire class. A point you would have realized if you'd read the entire response to the teacher that I posted originally.

Third: Again, stated in the original rebuttal; my son NEVER actively denigrates the beliefs of another. He has only ever responded to the short sighted individuals who left their brains at the door and decided to single him out for, what the felt, was a bizaar practice - forgetting the fact that by any objective standard, thier mythology was equally bizzar. My son is a very intelligent but kind individual and will often stick up for those that cannot defend themselves. He's been targeted and conversationally taunted for not buying into the bullshit mythology that his peers lap up like dogs and now HE'S supposed to NOT do anything to counter that in a non-violent way??? Really? Is that what you want to teach children - to take baseless criticism and hypocritical hyperbole lying down and NEVER offer an intelligent and pointed challenge? For the folks thar are advocating this posotion, why are you not still Mormon? Following your logic, leaving the Church is nothing more than a silly stunt designed to disrupt the cultural norm. Your reasoning is flawed.

Fourth: The only instances of classroom disrupotion (according to the teachers AND my son) occured when he was told to take the strainer off his head and he proceeded to fiddle with it like a toy. Again, if you read the original response you would have seen that I mentioned that we are dedicated to cooperating with the school in making sure that my son does not actively disrupt the classroom environment. There was NEVER any indication from teachers or the administration that the act of simply wearing the strainer disrupted the classroom. And I fully supported the teacher in cooperating with efforts to curb any playing with objects during class time that could cause a disruption. Again, please read the response where I state that if my son cannot control himself and continues to play with the head gear, I will no longer allow him to wear it. As for my son refusing to remove the strainer when the teacher told him to, he was basing his decision off of what his English teacher told him (again, in the original reponse - if you would take the time to read it): I.E. that no one can legally tell him to take it off and that he has a right to wear it. And... if all things are equal, if a Jew can wear a Kippah then my son can wear a strainer. Both are equally rediculous.

And finally: Again, as stated in the original rebuttal, my wife and I do NOT teach our son that mythologies are exempt from scrutiny, criticism, or rebuttal. We do teach him that people are free to believe what they want and, so long as their actions to not infringe upon the rights of others, that he should defend and champion their right to do so. However, we have told our son in no uncertain terms that he has the right to defend himself and point out hypocrisy and inconsistency (to be a skeptic as some have mentioned here) if someone is foolish enough to cross him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2013 10:57PM by enigma.

Lmao

I wasn't there, but as a teacher I know that I was too busy to contact parents over minor things that did not cause a problem. Just the fact that the teacher emailed indicted that there was a problem. You might feel differently if you were dealing with a class of twelve year old one of whom was wearing a pasta strainer. As I said, I wasn't there.

In my experience as a student, teachers often email parents for small reasons because they know that the parents will usually harass the students about something they want changed

For me this is irritating because I often resolve these minor issues on my own and then come home to be attacked by my parents in crisis mode because they think I'm failing the course

Just because it is an email home does not necessarily mean it is something worth emailing home about

And again, BD; you seem to have overlooked that my original response to the teacher included at least two separate paragraphs offering my full support in curbing ANY disruptive behavior. Again, based on the comments from the TEACHER, the only points of disruption were when he played with the strainer after he was asked to remove it AND when he responded the idiot Mormon who forgot that his cult was just as patently rediculous as a spaghetti strainer on one's head. And in that case I pointed out that my son choose the better part by letting the situation slide into the past. The Mormon kid is the one who decided that he could not handle a well placed return punch and decidided to go cry to the teacher. If that were my son, I would have simply told him: "Look, you're the one that decided to tell someone that their beliefs were weird. You got what you deserved and I hope I never hear about you whining to the teacher about it like a little pansie."

I actually wish this happened at my school, I would love to join in haha

I did read the whole post and stand by my opinion that wearing a pasta strainer to school is inappropriate.Just the fact that he was wearing it was a distraction of some sort. BTW, many Utah schools don't allow any head coverings at all.If your school is one of them, he was violating that rule.we will have to disagree on this,but I don't know any teacher who would allow that in class

So is wearing any other religeous atire also innapropriate?
If not what is the difference?

fuck you for making me agree with bona dea! i might have to do a complete identity change! ;-)

but seriously folks...

i support the kid's stunt as long as he's not doing it IN CLASS! what's wrong with wearing it EVERYWHERE BUT IN CLASS?

Because they can do their religous preaching so why can't he passivly wear his own religous attire

they can't do their religious preaching IN CLASS!!

he shouldn't do it either!!

as i said elsewhere today, i agree with the french...
religious attire is not acceptable in schools.

Well unfortunatly for you my friend, this is not france

He is protected by law to wear whatever silly religous hat he pleases

No he is not entitled to wear whatever he likes. Schools have dress codes and they have been upheld by the courts.He would have to prove that Pastafarianism is a real religious tradition with serious followers in order to get a religious exemption. Good luck with that. You would be laughed out of court

Except that it is

Is it not a religion if he "believes" in it which publicly he stated he has

And if they choose to go that route that's fine. I'll just make it a point to single out anyone that's wearing attire that reveals garment lines and protest that showing religious clothing is a violation of dress code and to either wear something that does not allow the garment to be seen at all, or kindly remove the garment while on school property.

complaining about garment lines...

thanks for showing your entire thread to be a joke.

Now your just attacking an irrelevant point

It has as much legitimacy as someone complaining about any other type of mythological attire. That's the whole point of this episode... to point out the hypocritical absurdity of telling one person that their choice of mythological attire is disruptive/distracting and not realizing that one's own mythological trappings may be equally disruptive/distracting.

+1000

But a strainer on the head is an outrage?

That's a win

I vote for the strainer. It's safer and not perv bait.

Its shiny, shiny>itchy

thanks for the strawman, Rap.

maybe you'll answer my question...

why can't the kid make his point by wearing the colander EVERYWHERE but in class?

I made that clear.

I know you find that a joke.

But that's the weird thing about this thread.

Why can't those teachers, or those kids make their point in between classes????

Change clothes before each class.

Hahaha so awesome

We have answered this

Because it is a passive rebuttal to the lds harrasment, WHICH HAPPENS IN CLASS



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2013 11:55PM by nsgallup.

I want to be there when he makes that argument. I also want to be in court when he demands that his kid be allowed to wear a colander to school because it is his religious right as a follower of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I d pay to see that

As awesome as that would be, most people are reasonable enough to not really care

http://www.venganza.org/

Looks just as legit as any other myth club I've seen. I can even be a minister - woo hoo!

Actually, the Mormon kids are ALWAYS talking about thier church in the classroom environment and even have gone so far as to tout their member missionary exploits AND have discussions with my son on why he is not a Mormon. The only differences between them and my son is that my son doesn't actively start talking about his personal beliefs AND he does not single out specific students who don't believe the same things he does. The Mormons are always let off the hook. I'm done with that shit.

This happens all the time in my school

if that's the case, then please present the many emails that you wrote to the teachers complaining about that.

^crickets^

if you made that the issue, you would have my support.

That doesn't make sense, on what basis would he have made that argument if not for the uproar caused by the son

My bad for some reason thought you were talking about the garments


But again didn't he already talk to the school about this?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2013 11:48PM by nsgallup.

So, here we go again.

Some religions are more equal than others.

There are at least two types of "headgear" that are considered sacred to two types of religions.

And both of which could be considered "distracting" by anyone who simply disagreed with their religions.

So, you get to tell Jewish boys, and Islamic girls they can't wear what they are "supposed" to?

But this kid can't wear what he is suggested to wear?

+1

nope

NO RELIGIOUS ATTIRE IN SCHOOLS!

I agree with that.

But that's not the current law.

So, I'd clarify that.

ok. i'll clarify. i agree with the french. religious attire is not appropriate in the classroom.

While I agree in general, in this case I think it is a perfectly reasonable way to make the morgbots think a little about what they are doing

Your opinion, law says otherwise

i'm not that interested in the law, especially in the fuck hole called utah.

i am interested in why he can't make his point without being inconsiderate to the teacher and the other students and wear the colander EVERYWHERE but in the classroom.

i've asked that many times, but no one seems to have an answer.

Because that is the point!
The teacher does not agree likely because they are lds
Honestly if people cannot function in a classroom because some kid is passivly wearing a dish...

Stupid stupid

Good point or why can't enigma go to the school and deal with the issue in an adult manner? I haven't heard an answer to that either. Surely there are more effective ways of getting your point across.

Did she not say that she has spoken with the school about this previously

Deal with it in an adult manner? I don't understand. This particular teacher emailed me. I simply responded using the same method of communication and made sure to lay out my points as consisely and thoroughly as possible. How was that not adult?

Cause your not agreeing!

Hahahaha! Too funny!

:)
Glad I could make you laugh

And if you're refering to my son's choice to wear it in the first place, you really need to go back and read the original response. Neither his mother, nor I encouraged or discouraged him from wearing it. His English teacher suggested it - most likely to make a point to his class... an effort that I applaud in this backwoods intellectual sink hole.

Well, there's at least on teacher who did. And there were a couple of teachers who didn't even wait to see if it was a disruption - just told him to take it off as soon as he walked in.

According to his English teacher, no one can legally tell him to take it off. And if they press the issue, I will hold a meeting with them and point out anyone that has a visible showing garment line through or outside of their clothing and tell them to please go remove their garments as they are creating a distraction to me and they make me uncomfortable.

Yes! Thankyou for a perfect argument

so is your kid wearing the colander today, tomorrow, all next week? didn't think so.

and you still haven't explained why he couldn't wear it everywhere except the classroom and still make his point.

The point is,

He doesn't need to explain himself!
He can wear it in a class room.if he so pleases regardless of anybodys opinion

Actually he does plan on wearing one regularly - perhaps not every day, but the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't make daily wearing of attire a requirement - so he's well within his belief construct to wear it when he sees fit... just like a Jew or a Mormon is within their belief construct to wear their equally rediculous clothing.

Often posts go in bizarre places simply because posters want to make a point that really wouldn't matter if they had bothered to read the original post.

Yup, I think the majority of us followed along quite well. The story as a whole made my day. Kept coming back every few hours to check on updates :P

I read the post several times. Just saying.

There's reading and then there's reading for comprehension. You might have done the former, but you failed miserably at the latter.

Ouch, That was just plain rude!

Although he does seem to be ignoring my responses while claiming that no one has answered his questions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2013 12:13AM by nsgallup.

That was not directed at you, nsgallup. I'm not sure to what "she" you are referring. I thought the poster "enigma" was a guy, but I've been wrong about a poster's gender before, so maybe I'm wrong again.

My bad, typo its a guy

Also I know it was not referring to me, I'm just mocking him

I feel a strong desire to watch Animal House right now.

Killing self-expression and creativity in kids isn't a good thing. The world will try to make them conform soon enough. Let them do their thing and see how conformist society truly is. It's a good life lesson and awfully sad.

If a student showed up in my composition class wearing a colander, I'd have to excuse myself to laugh my ass off, and I might show up the next day wearing one as well.

-Beth in Seattle, Where Every Day Is Halloween

+100

You need to teach this boy the difference between a real religion and a parody. At twelve, he should already be able to figure it out, but apparently not. Nobody with an IQ over 90 should have any difficulty at all determining that this is a spoof and not an actual religion.

He knows right? Pretty sure he does

Apparently neither the child nor his father realize it.

I highly doubt this

But regardless if he 'believes' this then it would still be religous freedoms

Seriously... after everything that's been posted about this you think that my son and I don't know that this entire religion is a spoof satire of other religions as a protest counter point? The point is, that we're both of the opinion that it's just as legitimate to found a religion in protest of other religions as it is to found a religion on some kind of strange metaphysical belief construct. After all, Mormonism itself was an 'anti-religious religion when it started. It was a protest and an act of radical dissent from the religions of its day. Protastantism was... exactly that, a protest of the Catholic Church. It made just as much sense as the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster does now.

Thankyou!

No actual religion is a spoof. You may disagree with what they teach, but they are serious about what they're saying. Perhaps you don't know what the word "spoof" means.

Why not?

JS made up his own religion, why can't anyone else

Maybe I'll make one lol

Spoof is a type of forgery.

Satire is more along the lines of what I think you meant to write.

I still think "spoof" fits all religions.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2013 12:04AM by Beth.

From the literature that I've read, the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is pretty serious about a good chunk of things. So... that makes them a religion - right?

Rofl!

Uh... he knows perfectly well what it is. We've had MANY humerous discussions on that topic. Good grief... you think he's living in a vaccuum or something...

Good for him

Thankyou for rebutting that

A "real" religion? Like, say, Scientology. Those doggone "real" thetans seem to have taken over your typing-fingers.

Umm... Was this at Maeser? Email me if it was!

Nope - it wasn't. And, in the interest of not putting undue public attention on the school itself, I'll just leave that detail out for now. As long as the teacher and administration are handling this as they have been, I'm fine letting the whole thing blow off in the winds of memory.

Good. I know the English teachers there really well and I was wondering if it might have been one in particular that inspired your son. I totally get the confidentiality thing!

I'm presuming that 12 yr old kids make moral points ( don't critisize others' beliefs) by doing it in a 12 yr old way. I'm presuming that he probably wont be doing this as an adult.

I also don't think that a 12 yr old's parents can get him to do something as potentially humiliating as wearing a strainer on their head because the PARENT wants to make a point.

Kudo's to him for standing up for himself after having been bullied in the past and that as a parent you stood up for his right to be an individual but then also told him that he couldn't use his 'rights' to disrupt the school- by playing with his hat. You were able to distinguish between the 'kidness' of your kid and his message. I don't think he took the hat off of his head and then deliberately decided to annoy the teacher by playing with it. But in case he did, you handled that well without taking away his confidence in himself!

+100

holy shit storm batman. Or should I say straw storm.

And holy pile on.

In the name of cheese and rice ramen

Hahaha this thread is making me laugh so hard

Love the humour