Wanted to get your opinions on this.. maybe some of you have had a similar situation or have had a family member come out of the closet, I’m just curious to see what you think.

Here’s some back story:
We were raised in a very true blue mormon family with the prototypical homemaker mother (amazing woman, caring, nurturing, patient, very motherly) and a father who is quirky to say the least. He was very temperamental and emotional to us, but to others always had to be the funny guy. He isn’t a man’s man by any means and I wouldn’t say we grew up with a strong masculine presence in our home at all. More like the best mom and her crabby/emotional girlfriend..

Probably not unlike other boys, we were quick to explore our bodies. I think it was me who first thought to put my parent’s foot massager on my junk, but once I did, I couldn’t stop, haha. I remember being young enough to not know it was ‘against the rules’. And I guess sharing is caring so I’m pretty sure I showed my brother my new found trick. What I don’t remember is who started the stuff between me and him, but there were sexual acts between the two of us (HJs, BJs, and penetration once). We were so young.. I was definitely younger than 10 when this was going on. I remember thinking it probably wasn’t something I wanted my parents to know about, but I remember being shocked when I found out it was sooo against the church rules. After our parents found out, that was the end of stuff between me and him. And after that, we never spoke of that stuff again for like 20 years.

Interestingly, I guess that was just a phase for me. I’m totally hetero and after that period, never experimented with guys again. I’m not attracted to men now in my adulthood and maybe my only connection to that is that I enjoy ‘back door’ entry when my partners allow, but then again lots of guys do..

For my brother on the other hand, he continued to grow up and I remember he dated very little if at all. As I said before, we never spoke of our past experiences, and it wouldn’t be until he was in college (BYU) that I started to hear that he was ‘struggling with something’. I found out that when he was in college he would connect with guys on the internet and then go have 1 night stands with them. I’m not sure how long this went on for, but I know it was fairly long term, I’m thinking around 2 years. I found out about this toward the end of his ‘repentance’. Obviously thinking to the past, I wondered if our past experiences had influenced his actions. So one night we sat down, my brother and I, and spoke about the whole thing (this would be the only time we’d talk about this). He said that he didn’t consider himself gay and that it just felt good (this conversation would have been after any counseling he probably got during his ‘repentance’). A couple years after that he met a girl in his ward and were married shortly after. He now has 2 kids and is uber super TBM.

Lastly, I’m pretty confident that if a typical member of our American society were to interact with my brother any time from about the age 15 to current, they would walk away thinking he was gay. He does the stereotypical mannerisms.. he’s super effeminate..


So you tell me.. can someone have all that history and not be gay? Now in my post-mormon life I think he’s living a lie.. but that he’s so deep in the lie he’ll never get out (he is a completely brain washed morg-bot). But from all you who interact with the gay community more than I, are there people out there like this that truly are hetero? Or is he just ‘lost in the closet’ so to speak?

Thanks for taking the time to read, and thanks more for your responses!

Not because your father wasn't masculine
Not because of your prepubescent exploration
Not because of his mannerisms
all those are nothing more than stereotype disinformation.

BUT

He spent at least two years arranging one night stands with men on the internet. That doesn't leave much to ponder.

Lost in the closet is a good term. And yes, there is a good chance your brother is gay. But your job as a brother isn't to out him, or call him on his gayness, but to be his brother and love him unconditionally. Be there for him. Listen to him. He may never confide in you that he's gay (if indeed he is...there are effeminate males I know who are not), but if he does, you need to be open and accepting. He's the only one who can make the choice to come out, if that's the case.

What one does in secret and what one does out in the open can be two very different things.

The uber-mormonness as you probably supposed already could easily be a front so as to not appear gay. Furthermore he may have surrounded himself in such an environment to make it more difficult to do things that are forbidden by TSCC.

What is he like around women?

He could be bisexual and just making a choice about which lifestyle benefits him more, but his track record sure makes it sound like he genuinely likes men.

But not because of anything the two of you did in childhood. ;o)

My bet? It's just a matter of time before he starts hooking up with guys on the internet again (if he hasn't already).

You're a good brother - stop feeling guilty. He has to make his own choices.

My brother also came out of the closet and it has all but destroyed my family. Family reunions are not possible because some will have nothing to do with him or his lifestyle. It's a sad fact that homosexuality disrupts societies and destroys families. I still talk to him and he has a good heart. I just feel he is a little misguided.

Homophobia, hate and intolerance is what destroyed your family. There are plenty of families that are welcoming and loving that fully accept their gay members. So, it is not the homosexuality that causes the problems, the families are only disrupted and destroyed when intolerance hate and homophobia are present.

Unfortunately what was once morally correct is now homophobia. Again, it inevidablity destroys families.

Fortunatly, societies have evolved and abandon what was once thought of morally acceptable for a much better set of values.

But my point is valid, the families that love and accept their gay members were not torn apart, the families that are torn apart because of a gay member are torn apart because some member of that family can not be excepting because of an outdated moral stance that never should have existed in the first place. Seriously, to allow a family to break up because someone thinks they are morally superior to another is PATHETIC.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2011 02:38AM by MJ.

I wished there was some way to undo the damage that has been done to my family. The church teaches that families can be together forever. Bullshit!

It seems you have discovered the Mormon secret. They are not all about the family.

I recently posted a question about my brother as well. Some of the advice I got was to support my brother and that hopefully the rest of the family will follow. Maybe you can show support to your brother and be an example of love that will put the Mormons to shame. :)

Completely agree with MJ on this one.

...any more than being heterosexual is a choice. Did you choose to be heterosexual, or were you just born that way? Same for gays.

I studied Human Sexuality in college (a well-regarded state school.) My professor taught that roughly 5-8 percent of any given population is homosexual. Repeat -- ANY GIVEN POPULATION. It is the same across cultures and across time periods.

That's not a choice!

There is no reason why having gays in a family need tear it apart. I am friendly with a gay couple, and my folks are likewise good friends with another gay couple, whom they invite over to spend the weekend. If a family member were gay, it woudn't be an issue at all.

and as for the OP....if you are felling guilty...dont....and as ALMOST everyone says..... be supportive!

Sad but true.

The kind that marries a woman and his kids with her, puts up a fundamentalist christian façade, and has one-hour stands with casual partners. Pathetic.

I think that your brother is likely gay or bisexual given his experiences in college. Don't worry about your childhood explorations, from what I understand that's not unusual at all.

Being the ex-wife of someone gay--and best friends with him, too, it isn't being gay that "destroyed" my family, it was the attitudes of society and the church that gays don't have a right to love and be with who they BELONG WITH. If gays felt free to be themselves, there wouldn't be this HUGE MESS.

I'll refer everyone again to the book "Perfect: The Journey of a Gay Mormon" which I believe can be found on lulu.com

for anoners--I'd say definitely gay. My ex has 2 kids and me, his "ex"--I knew he was gay when I married him 26 years ago. I was told by the church that he had to change or he was damned. They've "softened" their stance now--you just can't act on it. He started cheating 2-1/2 years into the marriage. We stayed together until 11-1/2 years and then he left. It took about 9 years to work through our anger and hate--and now we are the best of friends.

I have 2 cousins who got married. One had a child, one didn't. Both ended up divorced. One is still in the closet (except maybe to his parents--who told my mother). The other came out to me in September because they felt safe with me, but her father died not knowing as he wouldn't "hear"--her brother is in total denial. She has been with her partner for at least 10 years and everyone goes around with blinders on (I knew--I allowed her to come out to me on her own terms).

If there was no other issue to not believe in mormonism over--just this--that's enough for me. The heartache it causes is immeasurable.

Which one of you is older?

I don't think it is very normal either...

I had a brother who was a two years older than me, and a brother who was 4 years younger than me.

When we were pre-teens, (8, 9, 10, 11) I talked I a lot about sex with my older brother. But we NEVER touched each other. This would be something to de done MAYBE with cousins, friends, classmates - not a brother. Big-time incest!! Gross.

I could NEVER picture myself having BJs, HJs, let alone penetration with a brother, even as a boy.

Whether your brother is gay or not isn't for you to figure out.

Just love him regardless.

To "edmarc" who said "Unfortunately what was once morally correct is now homophobia." Yes, that's true...and what was once the proper order of people is now racism. It's you family's immature handling of the situation that has separated your family, not where your brother puts it.

And what was once family discipline is now called spousal abuse. (sarcasm on)Man, what happened to the good old days!(sarcasm off)

When my nephew outed himself, nobody in the extended family had a negative reaction.

My 90 year old Mom: "Next time you come to visit, why don't you bring your friend?"

My 20 year old son: "You are ruining the stereotype that gay guys dress nice. Pass the 5/8 combination wrench." (We were working on my Mom's car)

He is a cop. Most of the people in his department don't care. One guy who had made some bigoted statements came to him a month later and apologized, told him that "I know I can depend on you when things turn to shit."

DOES IT MATTER?

Even the animal kingdom has gay members, ask any biologist.

Native American tribes accepted their gay members and let them dress like and do what the women did if they wanted to. Sometimes they were regarded as very special with shamanistic connections.

He struggled for years in HS and College finding who he was. He was confused because as most people don't understand sexual abuse while is tragic and very abusive, often does feel good. I know it is a controversial thing but it confuses the poor child or adolescent because later on in life they feel guilty because it did feel good.
My brother has been struggleing with this because he was confused and thought he was gay because he likes certain things that people only associate with being gay. But he was sexually abused for 10 years plus. You're bound to not understand the difference in your feelings.
He began therapy after he married because his wife found out what happened and of course was shocked that my parents did nothing and that the church was (SHOCKER) informed when my mother came to them for advice. Obviously in the 80's it wasn't handled correctly and swept under the rug and never did they think of how my brother felt being forced to return every Sunday to my grandparents house to be subject to more abuse. My mother told the bishop that apparently was the end of it for my parents and since my grandfather was a high priest he couldn't of done anything this child accused him of. Leaving the younger siblings to be sexually abused by my brother because he learned that it was ok because grandpa did it to him and everyone knew and did nothing. Though my brother seemed to really do well once my grandfather passed away.
Anyways, my brother has struggled with thinking he was gay but he has always been sexually attracted to girls but liked all the seemingly normal "gay" things.
It is possible your brother is confused because of the gender he felt sexual feelings with was a boy.
I'm sure at any age that may confuse anyone. The mindset my brother said he learned was something like "well I was with a boy/man when I felt that so maybe a boy/man is what will give me that same feeling". You can see how that may confuse a young impreshinable person. It is a common problem among many abused victims when the action is woman/girl or man/boy or girl/ girl or boy/boy. Feeling sexual feelings with the same sex is probably very confusing for young kids.
I suggest counseling to help your brother. Really being honest with a counselor and yourself I think would help. Unfortunately while being still so emmersed in the church he probably wouldn't be really truely honest with a counselor and it may not help him in his true self discoverey.