I know what it's like to live in poverty -- both in North America
and in other parts of the world. I've lived that way a lot.

But I recently had an interesting conversation on the phone,
with a bank representative, and I'll summarize it here:

The bank officer on the phone wanted to know my current financial
situation and my credit history, before continuing our phone
conversation (about my applying for a credit card limit raise).

I told him what I felt like sharing, leaving out a few of my
assets, which he had not asked about anyway. The guy soon came
to the conclusion that I was dirt poor and obviously wouldn't
be bringing much business to his bank.

He was polite but patronizing and condescending beyond words.
It was plain to see that he considered me to be a lost cause;
an "old fart" who probably shouldn't even be trying to spend
any dollars that were not already sitting in his wallet.

For decades I've lived in a world where "pre-approved" credit
card offers, with $10,000 debt limits, came in practically
every junk mail delivery. But now the results of "living poor"
have finally hit me. The tiny approved raise of my card limit will allow me to purchase a low-end replacement computer......
as long as I first of all pay the current debt on the card
down to practically zero.

Guess I'll sell another family heirloom -- an antique RLDS
D&C, or some such possession. So the cash is not a problem.

What is striking, however, is the demotion from second-class
citizen to third-class citizen. Hopefully they'll still let
me into the bank, so long as I first comb my hair and wipe
the mud off my sandals.

Money and social status are really, really big nowadays,
aren't they? It's not the world I lived in "back when."

UD

Yes, I have lived poor too. As a teenager I slept in the garage with my two bothers--my parents reproduced themselves into near financial ruin (though my father had secret bank accounts).

I worked minimum wage and shared apartments sometimes. I only had one child so I could properly provide for him, and only after securing a well paid position did I have him.

I worked hard shift work at a huge factory. I saved my dimes and bought a little two bedroom duplex. I carried small debts other than the home.

When I committed the crime of aging and slowing down, I was thrown out by the corporate side and had to go to the state for social security. I live a frugal life and I wear shorts and sandals and shaggy hair too.

Who cares what they think, UD? I'm on your side. When we were young people wore what they had on*



*Neil Young



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2013 06:33PM by donbagley.

donbagley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
...
>
> Who cares what they think, UD? I'm on your side.
> When we were young people wore what they had on...
...

I ask myself, what has changed? A big economic downturn
has been part of the equation, but that's slowly getting
better, I'm told.

Partly it's the bank itself -- used to employ career
people, with a benefits package and vacations -- now,
at all but the highest levels, the employees are
part-time, temporary, or just working there until
something better opens up. Mr. Potter's bank is back.

But most of it is the age difference -- "when we were young"
the banks, insurance companies, even pawn shops, looked
upon a guy or gal, and said: "Maybe in a month or two,
they'll have a better job. Sooner or later we can make
money off these second class folks."

When you no longer have a career path -- when you're
working 39 hours a week in fast food, just trying to
get in a final employment year, before social security,
you're no longer a good prospect for upward mobility.

Yes, I finally got a tiny increase on a credit card. And
yes, the bank knows I'll pay off the balance, eventually.
But they also know they'll make little profit on me.

The hard-fought handout was charity, and not a decision
to maintain good public relations. Not smart PR.

It was a crumpled dollar bill, carelessly tossed into
the hat of the beggar on the street corner -- the one
that passersby are so careful not to make eye contact with.

Pope Francis the First? We need Francis of Assisi instead.

UD

You're breakin' my heart, UD. I, too, am very poor right now (and likely will be for some time, even though I'm finally again employed).

It IS striking, the difference with which bank people treat us and those who "have".

Itzpapalotl, I hear you, too.

I've been poor too. On the plus side, I know I can survive and make it through, I can skimp, save and live on practically nothing.

Don't want to do it again, though and sincerely hope I don't have to. I hope those of you dealing with it can get through.

On another front, the way our society treats adults who have spent their entire lives working and, usually through no fault of their own (banking issues, stock market crash, recession, etc.) are now almost destitute, is disgusting.

Third class citizen, or part of the Precariat: 'the New Dangerous Class'? You might get treated the same regardless of the label, but one has a lot more appeal, at least in potential lol:)

http://www.bloomsburyacademic.com/view/The-Precariat/chapter-ba-9781849664554-chapter-003.xml

The world is very demeaning and deliberately abusive to people experienceing poverty or financial difficulties.

About your computer, I buy all my computers on Amazon.com (laptops and desk tops). I just bought an amazing ASUS laptop for less than $500 on Amazon. Also bought an HP TouchScreen.

But anyway, the point is that Amazon.com lets you take out Amazon credit cards for purchases from them. I have one I never use but I remember it was approved within minutes. You might consider that if you need credit for a computer and would buy one online.

I'll probably end up doing something like that.

When a computer goes bad and leaves you in the lurch,
with all sorts of related problems, sometimes your
first instinct is just to get the closest match, back
on your desktop, as soon as possible. Then you try to
put through an order to Dell Computer and see that
the order is turned down for lack of credit. Oh we'll...

UD

It's a mystery to me
We have a greed with which we have agreed
You think you have to want more than you need
Until you have it all you won't be free
Society, you're a crazy breed I hope you're not lonely without me
When you want more than you have
You think you need
And when you think more than you want Your thoughts begin to bleed
I think I need to find a bigger place 'Cause when you have more than you think You need more space

Society, you're a crazy breed I hope you're not lonely without me
Eddie Vedder from Society :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYlgrLbsqAg

I dropped out some time ago. Glad I did.
add - I got told today in another thread that a bridge was calling for me. After careful consideration I think it was meant cruelly and to hurt me.
However, I do live on skid row. I chose this apartment complex because of that. I have a large 1 bedroom apartment for a wheelchair. The complex is only 3 years old with all up to date amenities. I am the only one with a computer and only 1 other tenant has a car. I pay $213.00 a month rent and have a very comfortable disposable income. I ordered a nice 80" condo for my cats today and had lunch out.
I have all I need and am where I want to be. Volunteer opportunities are vast. I was on Food Stamps but now I am not as I have sufficient money from my SSD. I am far from being ashamed
enough from me ...
LOL .. When I do go "under the bridge" for outreach ... my tablet still picks up WiFi
hahaha



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2013 07:34PM by mindlight.

mindlight Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...
> Volunteer opportunities are vast. I was on Food
> Stamps but now I am not...


Always look on the bright side of life...

For a man who has read the Vedas, this post surprises me. I don't think you are "poor living" though you may think you are UD. I'd take talking to you in real life than so many others. A man with wisdom is a rare thing.

I'm glad you are living (poor or otherwise) and that you can get your computer (even if in the future it will require such a sacrifice.) The wisdom you have acquired from other sources than a old Mormon book and the veritable wealth of life experience I envy.

I'm struggling to raise a small family but I have yet to be ditched by corporate given my age and have to turn the the State. If there is anyway we can discretely swap email addresses I wouldn't mind exchanging a few with you.

I'm one of the few Uncle Dales that post their e-mail
links online. Your assignment, should you agree to
accept it, is to search out that Google list, and
to boldly go where....

Oops... Mailman is at the door.

Btw, in case it applies to anyone, I know the local veterans organization is rebuilding computers so that veterans can get one for free. Doesn't matter what conflict you were involved with.

I donated a few old ones that were sitting in the basement, so if anyone qualifies, check with your local VA organization and see if they are doing something similar.

Credit is sometimes a bit of a mystery to me. My credit card issuer shot me down for a $1,000 increase despite a stellar credit rating, a decent job from which I can't be fired any time soon, and a two decade history with the credit card company. Yet I was able to take out four times as much money in student loans before I was ever employed in a professional capacity. And the mortgage broker who helped me finance my original mortgage pretty much let me decide what I could afford (I'm sure she would have shot down anything outrageous, but I wasn't about to be unreasonable.)

I've been told that people who are not employed can't qualify for a mortgage -- even if they have several million dollars in investments and savings. Go figure!

Another thought about computers -- people dump perfectly good computers all the time. I see plenty of computers at the electronics station at my local landfill that look like they are worth a try. You could also put a sign up in your neighborhood or check the Free Cycle web site. I've seen decent looking laptops at Wal-Mart for around $300 or so as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2013 08:00PM by summer.

Would you believe that a guy I correspond with has
FedExed his extra iPad to me. This will be fun...

Who says there's no such thing as a free lunch?

UD

When I divorced from a TBM in 2001, after 32 years of marriage, I plummeted to way below the poverty line. The month we separated I had 250.00 in my checking account. I was in my mid-fifties, and had to start from scratch. Thankfully, I did find some employment, without benefits. It was interesting to watch different people's reactions to my difficult living conditions; they ran the whole gamut, from sympathy to disdain.

Ten years later, after working my head off, and a lucky house sale, I came into a sizeable, comfortable savings. The vultures, scam artists and family, came out of the closet. They all wanted a piece of that pie. Now I watch my back, and have little support from anywhere, except from a few choice friends and some family. But they have their own problems. So, I'm basically on my own.

Society definitely assigns us a value according to our financial situation. No matter that I am decently educated, have a degree, and contributed four decent children to our society.

It's a sick civilization when we are viewed as no more than 'human capital.'

I'm pretty much convinced that if some genius discovered
the most wonderful, inexpensive cure for cancer he/she
would also receive massive criticism for not making that
discovery a paying proposition.

There is really no such thing as money. We can't eat gold
doubloons or ten thousand dollar gambling winnings checks
signed by Bro. Romney.

So, we place a very high status upon something that actually
only exists because we agree it exists.

Dolphins must be happy that they are the ones in the
aquarium tanks, and not out here with us in the "real" world.

UD

+1

Uncle Dale & whoever sent you the ipad, you have reinforced my faith in humanity. :) YeaH!

+

There a few things more terrifying than coming down with an infection and having to decide between paying for an urgent care visit (because you don't have insurance and can't afford a regular GMP) and the utilities.

We live in a world were corrupt bankers get bailed out and the regular people lose their houses and are reviled for using benefits they paid for years ago. Then there's the fun of being called lazy sponges when one job is not enough and you have to use your EBT card at the local grocery.

Well, of course, if your two jobs pay so little that you
have to sell the family farm one year, just to pay all
those medical bills -- you might end up as part of the
infamous 47% who paid no federal income taxes that year.
Your deductions and low pay might just work together to
exempt you from having to write Uncle Sam a tax check.

Just like General Electric can pay zero taxes, in a year.

But GE is a "maker" and you are a "taker," driving around
on highways you're not paying for and being protected by
military types who get no payment from you. -- Slacker!


Oh, the rich get richer and the poor... have children.

UD

Yup. It's not living poor, it's surviving poor.

UD,

Dropped you an email.

Please let me know if it didn't come through.

To me, the difference between being poor when I was a kid and being poor now is that it was easier to become not-poor back then. My dad was career Navy. My parents moved up in the world by investing in a small home, and then when dad got transferred, sold it for a higher price. The next place we lived they bought a bit nicer home and then when we were transferred, they sold that one at a bit higher price, etc. etc. until they had a nice little nest egg and a pretty nice house. Of course all that went away when they got divorced, but still. Housing prices went up slowly and steadily over the years. Now? So many are under water with their mortgages, it's not funny.

Then there's education. When I graduated from high school in 1972, getting a BS was a big deal, your ticket to a good career and higher income. Having an Associates degree could get you a good job, too. Now a high school diploma is nothing, an Associate's isn't much better and heaven forbid you ONLY have a bachelor's because everyone in the professional world is looking for a masters+++

I just don't think there's as much of a chance to move up these days.

Or even land a job with basic social or tech skills...Truly, I am suprised at how so many (imo) socially unqualified people land managerial positions. And the businesses wonder why they have such a high turnover rate, not that the upper management care...

My brother recently moved from the Mormon Corridor to a
state in the middle of the country. He lucked out. The local
bank had a repossessed house and lot -- really cheap. So he
put all of his money into it and practically owns it now.
Just a few more mortgage payments to go and its his.

The the guy who used to own the place stopped by to reclaim
his old toolbox. Said he too once had the property almost
paid off. Got sick, lost his job, couldn't make those last
few payments, couldn't get a second mortgage, and the bank
kicked him out of a house that was almost paid off.

After hearing that story, my brother is sweating those last
few loan payments. One bit of bad luck and the bank might
have control of the place for a second time in as many years.

Didn't used to be like that. Time was when those sorts of
difficulties could be worked out, somehow. But now it turns
out that the bank doesn't actually "hold" the mortgage. It
has been chopped up into pieces and those pieces rolled
into investment securities, along with several dozen other
mortgages -- and the local bank now just acts as a sort of
bill collector -- an enforcer for some nameless office in
some unknown building in some city in Europe.

Weird, man... just plain w-e-i-r-d...

UD

I'm sorry that happened to you. American economy worships and favors youth over older people.

I'm poor and will probably be for a long time because of my major choice in school--unless I go into politics and public policy :( I like being poor because the less materialistic I am the more I focus on developing myself as a person from the inside-out.

Being poor is humbling and I don't regret it.