I have an observation and questions about everyone’s favorite mall being built in downtown Salt Lake. Maybe someone in the know, like Mighty Builder, can answer these. Construction on City Creek Center is buzzing right along. Many portions look nearly complete, especially the high rise condos. There are three condo properties being built in City Creek. The Regent, Richards Court, and Promontory Tower.
http://www.citycreekliving.com/

On the link I shared you can see The Regent and Richards Court being marketed. The Regent has about 60% of it’s units reserved,(after having to slash their prices nearly in half). And Richards Court has about 30% of it’s units reserved,(those units overlooking Temple Square are all reserved, while those overlooking the mall remain empty).

What’s conspicuously absent is Promontory Tower. Promontory Tower is the huge 32 story tower being built on S. Temple. This tower is nearly done. The exterior is complete, the interior is moving right along with lobby having most of its finishes up. Yet for some reason, LDS.Inc has not put these condos up for sale. Why?

Building high rise condos is risky even during boom times, and developers start selling them when the building’s just a hole in the ground or even before. So what’s the deal with Promontory Tower? Even if they start selling now, at the rate other two properties are selling, this towers going to mostly empty for a long time. Yet even now as the tower nears completion they show no sign that they’re going to put the condos up for sale.

So who then exactly are those luxury condos and penthouses made for? Is Promontory going to be the new luxury home for the big 15 and other GA’s? Did LDS.Inc just spend hundreds of millions of dollars for a luxury tower for its leaders to live in? Or could it simply be that they realize they picked the worst possible time to build a high rise condo, and are just going to let it sit for a years, hope for the market to improve, and then sell it? Either way, whether it’s a home big enough for the egos of the big 15, or a testament to poor marketing and business decisions, it’s a perfect monument for LDS.Inc.

tithing money. Is this how it is spent?

But it has been estimated that the church brings in about $5B per year in Tithes. Apparently the church is paying for the whole developement project out of its own pocket.

Considering the failing of Beneficial Life, Zions Bank faltering, and the general economy which is taking its toll on the regular businesses the church owns, it's hard to imagine that the money is coming from the business arm of the church.

For example what we do know is LDS canada sent 40 million dollars (tithing) to BYU last year. Now since it went to BYU it will go into there bank and it is no longer considered tithing.

Viola.....Tithing is instantly no longer tithing.

The comments are interesting. I could easily be anti-Mormon, and was for years.....personal stuff, but now I'm past it.

1- I think that the most basic analysis of the City Creek project is that the Church headquarters, the temple and all else related to the center of the Church, is inextricably located in downtown slc.
2- The LDS church is in a transition from a cult to a modern organization which mostly resembles a corporation, and the board and officers are businessmen.....as it must be.\
3- In the old days it was easy to declare all others wicked and on the way to hell and isolate the Mormon comunity but that functionally is just not possible now. Convert rates are way down from my old missionary days....stats etc. not encouraging, and IT GETS RIGHT DOWN TO THE NITTY-GRITTY: Will the church survive the old pioneer image or just fade away over the next fity or one hundred years and just become a botique religion.
4- The LDS church, or course, wants to survive and grow.
5- To do this the church must "entertain" visitors to slc and those watching on tv with views of prosperity to wit: people will not invest time and tithing money in what might appear as a failed enterprise. Salt Lake has declined so much in the past fifty years and a visitor seeing the slums, whorehouses, closed buildings by the dozens would absolutely not be impressed. They still line State St and Main St to this day
6- The church is thought to have 100-200 billion dollars and can certainly spare a few to improve the neighborhood.
7- It is critical the the centerplace of the church be nested in a beautiful, prosperous place, surrounded by gardens and with all signs of health as a church and financially.
8- Given no other way to insure the future physically for the Church (the message is no longer enough to carry it along) the church is bound to to create the City Creek project now and others to come.
9- Invest in good props and keep the semi-faithful paying their tithes.
10- Invest in beautiful temples (which must be attended regularly or no heaven) and requite tithes to get in the temple and it is, again, a return on investment. It's all roi.
11- So long as there is more money coming in from generated tithes from people who don't want to go to hell....more than any impressive projects cost, then it continues to be a going
business.
12- Of course its a dog-and-pony show but so what? It is their show and there are dog-and-pony shows on every corner. I don't need a new car but if you'll blow some smoke up my ass I will actually buy one today. I learned this in the mission field.

They claim tithing isn't being used. Of course they don't disclose what IS being used, and for all we know that just means they laundered the tithing money through some other investment first.

One explanation for the condos was given a while back by someone far more familiar with the real estate market. They said that banks just won't make loans for high end condos in this market. The prices fluctuate too much.

Without making an appointment, I've never been able to find out the range of the costs. I did contact them by email and the idiots just sent me the above link! I know that the condos facing the best views--hills--are the ones that none of the morgbots want!

Do you know the price ranges of these properties?

CITY CREEK LIVING
THE REGENT
$295,000 854-909 SQ FT ONE BEDROOM
$456,000 1,138-1,514 SQ FT TWO BEDROOM
$1,258,000 1,455-2,157 SQ FT TWO BEDROOM /DEN
--------------------------------

CITY CREEK LIVING
RICHARDS COURT

$477,000 904-1,131 SQ FT ONE BEDROOM
$665,000 1,187-2,126 SQ FT TWO BEDROOM
$2,362,000 2,568 SQ FT THREE BEDROOM



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2011 04:43PM by wjexmo.

Interesting that they are also not listing on the MLS... Are they trying to control who they sell to?

Here's the Trib article about them cutting the Regents prices.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/49890045-79/church-units-regent-creek.html.csp#

"Under construction at 35 E. 100 South, The Regent is set for completion in mid- to late 2011. The 20-story project, which will have 150 units, was originally priced starting from around $300,000 to as much as $1.7 million. The church said prices now start in the mid-$100,000s."

"Since it started work on City Creek, the LDS Church has released little information about its condos, other than to say that interest has been good given the economic climate. Neither the individual units nor the project are listed on the Wasatch Front Regional Multiple Listing Service."

I wonder if a code of conduct policy will be set for these condos? I can't imagine the church building these condos, then tenants sitting on the balcony drinking a case. That would be fucking priceless!!! Or better yet, taking home a girl from the bar, and laying the wood all night. Being as loud as humanly possible. LMAO



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2011 11:13PM by Susan I/S.

I just heard on 90.1 that the units go on sale Monday, Feb 14. I still don't see them listed online, like floor plans, etc.

As far as enforcing Mormon religious standards that's against the law. It violates the federal Fair Employment and Housing Act.

http://www.dfeh.ca.gov/dfeh/complaints/restrictiveCovenants.aspx

More likely they'll have no smoking condo regulations. But drinking or sex, impossible without getting sued and the rules being void anyway.

Wouldn't it be amazing if the church had to file bankruptcy? I really wonder what's going on.

A 3rd possibility is that LDS, Inc. will hold onto the units and rent them out, hoping for the market to recover. Better to lose some money on rent and then sell later than to lose a lot now by selling at a discount.

Then again, prices may not recover for some time and may even fall further. If only LDS, Inc. had some way to see into the future....

Recovery to 2006 is not in the cards, and never will be.

We will never see that sort of economy in the future.

Our future will be materially poorer, but will have the potential to be far richer in other ways.

They will go on sale to the general public next week, and the floor plans will be posted on the CCC website, I assume next week as well.

Cherry floors. It had the best alloy door frames on the patio doors that I have ever seen, and I lived in North Dakota, a place which is pretty serious about window and door quality.

The air was crystal clear that day (shocker in the valley in February) and the views from the 15th floor were to die for in all directions.

All that said, living within slingshot range of the SL temple would creep me out.

Not to mention not having a spare half mill to plunk down.

A couple of observations:

1. The church does not own Zions Bank. Has not for many years. It is publicly held.

2. The church cannot use tithing (not for profit) money in its for profit enterprises, as this would cause a tax event, which is avoided at all costs. Obviously, the original business were started via donated money, but now they are help separately, typically via Deseret Management Corp. (DMC) http://www.deseretmanagement.com/

Many of the businesses are dogs (money loosing), such as Deseret Book, and as noted, Beneficial Life. (By the way, where was the inspiration on that one? Lost $0.5billion.)

3. Per Hinckley in a GC talk some years back, he noted that debt would be used to build mall and condos. It scares me that the church would go very much in debt, securing the project with obviously the project itself, but probably with other assets. What if the mall fails?

4. On another note (warning - non sequitir coming), the church has preached that people should be happy with reasonable homes, at reasonable prices, yet the church builds and now tries to market, million dollar condos, with a view of the temple. I think there is a word for this. Oh yes, it's hypocrite.

As soon as they spend all the money and get it all built, it will be time to abandon it and move back to Missouri. That's the true Mormon tradition. Put a lot of effort into building something and then leave it. But instead of getting driven farther west this time they will be moving east. Grab your handcart everybody, we blew the car budget on the mall. Load up some beans and a dutch over and off to Adam-ondi-Amen we go.

LDS Inc. needs to let Donald Trump run those buildings. Just buy into his franchise and let him run them. LDS Inc. loves the high end image so a golden TRUMP sign above the temple would make Gordon B. Hinckley proud.

The church can use tithing money for commercial purposes as long as it pays taxes on that money. That is what got the church into businesses in the first place. The church was in debt and it started cash tithing instead of barter tithing and not only did the church pay off it's debt, it had a surplus on money.

They invested this money into utility companies, railroads, sugar companies. All of that was started from tithing funds. Don't think it doesn't continue today.

LDS Inc is getting tight on funds. dont believe the current claimed purchased occupancy, even as low as it is.

They SHOULD go to a unit finished as purchased type plan, but they dont want to do that as it is a concession that the demand is not nearly what they claim & that INSTANTLY zaps the marketing hype, and slams asking price.

Contractors payment timelines are being stretched to the max.
They cant go any further with out a mutiny.
They are scrambling to complete in 2011. They are really ticking off the contractors while breathing down their necks
AND demanding exceptional /UNOBTAINABLE quality (over stupid stuff) because they think the thing is like a temple.
Remember the first phase was ORIGINALLY to be completed in 2008.

The thing is going to be an albatross at best.
frankly I love the CCC project because the church screwed themselves with it.

You gotta wonder where their prophetic powers were when they started planning this thing during the late 90's-early 2000's, when the economy was still humming along nicely.

Like perhaps many back in the 1990s, I could see the demographic issues on the horizon when the Baby Boomers started wanting to retire in 2010. It occurred to me and probably many others that those boomers would be trying to sell their homes, and there wouldn't be enough buyers lining up.

I didn't foresee how the liar loans would bring everything down, but anyone back then with a willingness to fact the facts about demographics could see a day of reckoning was not far off.

I was told by a contractor on the site that two wealthy brothers are fighting over some top floor suites and trying to out do each other.

This is from fellow that works on the site daily fwiw

One can just imagine the shoving and finger pointing which has already started and left the GA's with no time, after choosing out the countertops and wainscoting, to deal with petty matters like answering doctrinal questions.

And Promontory Towers? Please--it's a hierarchy and it's being "saved" for the special marketing push where they can sell the possibility of your personal excrement possibly combine with apostle excrement on its way to the sewer.

Yes, poster is right- drip marketing with a sprinkling of intangible benefits.

Anagrammy